Featured Should we put much stock in relatively NEW doctrine?

God going to school on Man

Not a new doctrine--Theology 101, day 1: God is omniscient. He knows the end from before the beginning. He knows our every secret and thought. He knows what we will do before we do it.

He also gave us a free will, which we exercise to willfully break His laws.

He loves us, even when we are unlovable.

He died for us through Jesus, the only begotten of The Father.

Oh, what a Saviour.

Why do we run from God?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

Oh good Lord....

 

I know you are in agreement with what I posted. He has posted this way before. I was wondering how to make sense of it.He cannot escape from the implications of what he is saying.
From the looks of it he intends to stand firmly in this position. I did not think . it was acceptable to post such a denial of the Divine attributes. I thought no one had seen or reads his posts anymore. ..that's why it remained

 

I only saw his post through your quoting it. What does it say of our God if He must learn as a man does? It is part of the devil's lie.

 

I had not thought of it in that light but sadly you are correct. Many people today believe righteousness can be attained by good works!

As I said I cannot speak for Calvinists. Scripture tells me that the redeemed are declared righteous through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ because of faith. That I believe.

 

I think that gives way too much credit to the so-called Calvinists. They all seem to be "cut and paste" folks, seldom presenting any of their own products of actual bible study. They cannot change "their" position because it was copyrighted in the dark ages.

But I agree with you, Calvinism has taken what scripture teaches and rewritten it by redefinition and addition to make it mistaken doctrine. Thus all men becomes all kinds of men, and a ransom for all becomes a ransom for all kinds, and unable to understand spiritual things becomes unable to understand all spiritual things.

 

Well, if you want to make sense of what I believe, you have to abandon presuppositions and believe what the scriptures ACTUALLY say. Very simple.

Gen 32:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Does God say he always knew Abraham feared God here, or does he say NOW I know that thou fearest God? What does it say?

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Does God here say he already knows whether Sodom and Gomorrah had done according to the cry of it, or does God say he will go down NOW and SEE, and if not, I WILL KNOW? What does the scripture say here?

2 Chr 32:30 This same Hezekiah also stopped the upper watercourse of Gihon, and brought it straight down to the west side of the city of David. And Hezekiah prospered in all his works.
31 Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to inquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.

Does God here say he knew Hezekiah's heart, or does he say he will try Hezekiah that he MIGHT KNOW all that was in his heart? What does the scripture say?

Your argument is that scripture does not mean what it plainly says, and you call me a blasphemer for believing the scriptures for what they actually say.

I would call your argument a very poor argument indeed.

Perhaps what is wrong is your presuppositions??

 

[sarcasm]Yep... we do our theology in a vacuum, love to cut and paste, seldom study the Bible, unable to change "our" position due to copyright infringement, and are only "so-called" Calvinists.[/sarcasm]

FYI... I wasn't always a Calvinist. I have barely read any Calvinist literature, mainly b/c I am in the field of NT studies and biblical theology not systematics or reformed theology. I arrived there through personal influences and the study of Scripture.

The above is as Roman Catholic as it gets... i.e. pontificating ex cathedra. When you become the arbiter of truth, you are then allowed to dogmatize like this. Until then, it just comes off as prideful. All of that could be avoided by simply prefacing with "I believe that Calvinism has taken what scripture [sic.]..."

 

To bad this deep study of scripture can never be presented, only charges of arrogance and pride toward those who actually present their views. And if a truth is presented, why that is "dogmatizing" and evil. Anytime a person attacks how something is said, rather than what is said, you know the response is calculated to evade truth and offer logical fallacy. Opps, or so I believe.

 

How much stock should we put in the fiction that we were chosen unconditionally as foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world? None.

God declares from the beginning what will occur. God makes prophecy. But He does so not by knowing the future (which He may know), but by causing what He said would occur to occur. Totally different idea. So God declares something will happen, then He causes what was declared to happen. He can predestine the "son-placing" which is our promised resurrection, and then make that "son-placing" occur when Christ returns.

So the issue is not that "predestination" was not known before the 4th century, but only that the Calvinist fictional doctrine of predestination was not known before the 4th century.

And this leaves aside the Calvinist fictional doctrine of exhaustive determinism.

 

:applause::applause:

 

Thank you GT, I wish everyone would adopt this posture.

 

Yes...his posts are off the theological radar screen worse than the missing malaysian jet plane. He chops up a list of anthropomorphic language and speaks of a god who basically needs to watch fox news to learn what is taking place in this world.

here he stands firm with this false god he describes;

 

Fox is fair and balanced so if God has to learn anything better Fox than MSNBC!:thumbsup::laugh::thumbsup::laugh:

 

The issue is not presenting truth, but how you present it. Even Paul said to speak truth, but do so in love seasoned w/ salt. And since this thread has been reduced to cinder, I figured I would point out your pontification technique. It really does come off as pride more than confidence. Less appealing. The opposing view is thus more attractive. Take the advice or leave it. It was just a suggestion. Your rhetoric is as one who could be described as a Baptist/fundie pontiff. I know you don't think of yourself in that way. But the manner of your speech says otherwise.

PS... I'm calling bull crap on the "To [sic] bad this deep study of scripture [sic] can never be presented..." statement. I have presented deeper grammatical and syntactical exegesis than any post I have seen from you. I know you don't know Greek, but I do. So to say that deep study isn't happening is either ignorance or arrogance (which is ironic since that was the accusation you leveled just after the quoted statement). Then again, I don't know that our definitions of "deep study of Scripture" is going to match. But whatever...

 

Reformed

Your post reminded me that most have winman on ignore and cannot see these posts...thankfully....but it is instructive to observe how this error happens...let's examine this;

Winman posts...

 

Skandelon,

I'd like to know what you think of Winman's claim that God LITERALLY did not know that Abraham would trust him until he saw Abraham prove it.

Let me say this.

To be an Arminian and be even remotely consistent you really do have to deny the omniscience of God.

But, frankly, you might as well deny the existence of God. Your God who learns as he goes is no mightier than Zeus- and does not exist any more than the Greek god either.

 

LOL, you WISH folks had me on ignore, because I constantly show scripture that refutes you.

You cannot refute me with scripture, so you resort to calling me names. Childish, but it's all you've got.

Why don't you simply show scripture that says God cannot learn? I have shown numerous scriptures that shows God does learn.

Instead of accusing me of blasphemy, why don't you present scriptural EVIDENCE to support your view? I DO.

Wow, Iconoclast shows his strength, he knows how to post smilies. Again, impressive.