Should we put much stock in relatively NEW doctrine?

[Greektim]

The NPP has a small but fanatical following. It is found more among Presbyterians than Baptists, although it has lured many Baptists into its clutches. At its heart the NPP is a refutation of the doctrine of justification by faith. If you really need quotes from Sanders and Wright I will be more than happy to accommodate you.

The Federal Vision is a strictly Presbyterian position because one must be a paedobaptist to believe in it. Since this is a Baptist board I am fairly confident not many board members even know about it.

Am I correct? Yeah. I am. Both of these doctrines which are found in the Reformed camp are minority positions that are far outside the boundaries of orthodoxy.

As far a Dispensationalism, are you really going to deny that it is the dominant eschatology among Arminians? Or if you need it to be drilled down a little finer, how about the dominant eschatology among Baptists?

I would only call the NPP "small" in baptist circles. But in the larger academic world, it is pretty much standard.

That said, I know this is not a thread on the NP, and I tire of having to defend it from false claims. But when you say, "At its heart the NPP is a refutation of the doctrine of justification by faith," I would like to see the quotation you are referring since you offered to provide them.

I would encourage you to start a new thread. Maybe I can discuss the NP w/ someone who as actually read Wright. Sanders I am not as much concerned about. But I am an unashamed huge fan of N. T. Wright.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would only call the NPP "small" in baptist circles. But in the larger academic world, it is pretty much standard.

That said, I know this is not a thread on the NP, and I tire of having to defend it from false claims. But when you say, "At its heart the NPP is a refutation of the doctrine of justification by faith," I would like to see the quotation you are referring since you offered to provide them.

I would encourage you to start a new thread. Maybe I can discuss the NP w/ someone who as actually read Wright. Sanders I am not as much concerned about. But I am an unashamed huge fan of N. T. Wright.

Tim.....I am just surprised that someone claming to be supralapsarian as yourself could even read into a clear attempt to Catholize Protestant theology! Tom Wright is nothing more than another RC theologian fronting as an Anglican.

 

[Greektim]

Tim.....I am just surprised that someone claming to be supralapsarian as yourself could even read into a clear attempt to Catholize Protestant theology! Tom Wright is nothing more than another RC theologian fronting as an Anglican.

My guess is that you have read little of Wright. Very little of what I have read (my field being NT studies) has anything to do w/ that branch of theology. I'm serious, I can't think of 1 book I've read where I thought, "That is just his Anglicanism coming out." In fact, I've heard him talk more about reformed theology than Anglican theology. To make this point, I think it is interesting that Calvin College invites Wright regularly to give a lecture series.

As it turns out, there are some outstanding Anglican writers that I rather enjoy: Christopher Wright (jokingly calls himself OT Wright), John Stott, Peter Leithart, to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[percho]

Supralapsarianism

Well I am 70 plus and had to Google. Greek isn't the only thing I do not know.

Logical order of God's decrees - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is where I went for comparison to the following.

My thoughts.

Before the foundation of the world, God decreed:

A. The Christ would shed his blood, give his life that would be in the blood.
B. A promise. The hope of eternal life.
C. Through election to reconcile the world unto himself. Eph. 1:4,5,9,10

BTW IMHO A and B above is, the belief, the faith of God.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The foundation of the world. Create the ordered system by which the above could come to be.

?Why? Why the decrees? Why the foundation of the world? Was there something already wrong with the heavens and the earth of Genesis 1:1?

In what manner would the man created in the image of God, his creator, need to be created in order for the decrees to come about?

Before the faith (belief) came - After the faith (belief) did come. Gal. 3:23,25

When the Christ, with the life of the flesh being in his blood, was obedient unto shedding his blood, giving his life unto death, received, was given by God, his Father the promised hope, eternal life, the belief, FAITH, came to be.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole of man. Ecc 12:13

However those works of righteousness will not bring you life. Eternal life.
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal. 3:19

The grace of life comes through the faith. It came to the one to whom, The Promise, was made.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal. 3:19 (The seed of Abraham, the Christ.) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal. 3:16 (Abraham died not having received the promises. Christ died and has received the promises.)

Adam created and all after him born of woman would need to be born again in order to enter, see, and or inherit the kingdom of God.

And this is all of God and has nothing to do with what you believe or do not believe or what comes first the chicken or the egg.

IMHO.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My guess is that you have read little of Wright. Very little of what I have read (my field being NT studies) has anything to do w/ that branch of theology. I'm serious, I can't think of 1 book I've read where I thought, "That is just his Anglicanism coming out." In fact, I've heard him talk more about reformed theology than Anglican theology. To make this point, I think it is interesting that Calvin College invites Wright regularly to give a lecture series.

As it turns out, there are some outstanding Anglican writers that I rather enjoy: Christopher Wright (jokingly calls himself OT Wright), John Stott, Peter Leithart, to name a few off the top of my head.

Interisting you would study Anglicans instead of Old School Baptists...that in itself tells me volumes.

 

[Revmitchell]

I would only call the NPP "small" in baptist circles. But in the larger academic world, it is pretty much standard.

Yes of course.

 

[Greektim]

Interisting you would study Anglicans instead of Old School Baptists...that in itself tells me volumes.

What? That most "old school baptists" aren't all that good? I'd agree. Oh there are a few. But I really don't base my reading on someone's denomination. I don't care much for denominations as it is. I am here b/c I enjoy the BB & I am part of an SBC church. But where I live, I am an elder of a multi-denominational church.

 

[Greektim]

Yes of course.

That was not really meant as an elitist thing. I am just giving you my observation. Actually, much of academia follows Sanders & Dunn who are much farther than Wright in the NPP stuff. And I can say as much b/c I daily interact w/ that academic world, especially NT studies. (I am in research mode for my thesis; and I am contemplating a PhD).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What? That most "old school baptists" aren't all that good? I'd agree. Oh there are a few. But I really don't base my reading on someone's denomination. I don't care much for denominations as it is. I am here b/c I enjoy the BB & I am part of an SBC church. But where I live, I am an elder of a multi-denominational church.

Never mind! All you had to do is qualify yourself as SBC

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes of course.

Just become paedo :laugh:

 

[Greektim]

Never mind! All you had to do is qualify yourself as SBC

bwahahaha...

If I had my preference, I would plant a reformed SBC church (I like how they do missions). But that is funny too. I would admit, the SBC is NOT perfect by any stretch.

 

[percho]

For all of you who are more learned than myself. Does Paul disagree with my last post?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

bwahahaha...

If I had my preference, I would plant a reformed SBC church (I like how they do missions). But that is funny too. I would admit, the SBC is NOT perfect by any stretch.

:laugh:There is no such thing and I said nothing about perfect....only God is perfect :laugh:

 

[Greektim]

:laugh:There is no such thing and I said nothing about perfect....only God is perfect :laugh:

You knew what I meant. It was hyperbole.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.