Teaching Sunday on Eschatology

[evangelist6589]

I will get to sub this sunday and its been some five years since I last taught in a SS environment, however one advantage to the format this church does things is that they like table based discussion oriented teaching so one does not need to prepare an hour long lecture in this format. I am preparing a handout to pass to the class and also want to include some recommended resources for further study in the field of eschatology. Most in this church do not read theology so I want to mention some books that are not too deep. Anyone have 1-2 other books to mention?

Eschatology General

The End Times in Chronological Order Ron Rhodes
God's Prophetic Blueprint Bob Shelton
A basic Guide to Eschatology by Millard Erickson- I highlight this one as it outlines all the millennial and tribulation positions and is fair to each view with positive and negative aspects. The book is hardly biased and just seems to want the Bible to explain things.

The Olivet Discourse

The Second Coming John MacArthur
Until Christ Returns David Jeremiah

The Judgment Seat of Christ

Your Eternal Reward Erwin Lutzer

Revelation

Because the Time is Near John MacArthur
Revelation (The John Walvoord Prophecy Commentaries)

 

[Grasshopper]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0915815354/?tag=baptis04-20

 

[padredurand]

You use the word deep often to describe books. Could you define what you mean by deep?

 

[go2church]

If you're looking for a dispsy, premill perspective that is thorough but easier to grab a hold of you would want to look at Warren Wiersbe's Be Victorious from his Be series of commentaries. The books you gave seem to me to be shooting too high if your audience is as you claim.

 

[evangelist6589]

If you're looking for a dispsy, premill perspective that is thorough but easier to grab a hold of you would want to look at Warren Wiersbe's Be Victorious from his Be series of commentaries. The books you gave seem to me to be shooting too high if your audience is as you claim.

This one?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1434767825/?tag=baptis04-20

Best advice in this thread. Thanks I will need to take a look at that one.

 

[evangelist6589]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0915815354/?tag=baptis04-20

Is this a preterism book?

 

[go2church]

Yes, that book

DeMar I believe is amill.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes, that book

DeMar I believe is amill.

No way and besides it would be divisive in my circle.

 

[JamesL]

Evangelist,
Based on comments you've made about your church and the people there - how they don't like to read books, they don't like to dig any deeper than dust, Not interested in theology, etc., I'm going to take a small leap:

Your handout will go no further than the trash can, and your list of recommended reading materials will be ignored.

I hope that doesn't come across as overtly pessimistic. But if your assessment of them is correct, that's more than likely reality.

I'm curious. Are you putting the subject matter together, or is it official curriculum?


I taught a SS school class last year, for young adults (18-26). They were probably the most biblically illiterate group I've ever encountered, and seemed perfectly content to stay that way. A couple of them didn't mind having deeper discussion, but only from a philosophical standpoint - not from scripture.

I guess my point is that you don't necessarily need to shoot for the moon, especially if the class isn't willing to get on the ship.


Maybe you can simply discuss various issues related to eschatology without delving into a theological system. Just guide them into a few of these issues by asking some questions about what they think.

Then have a question and answer period, where anyone can ask a question and have it batted around.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No way and besides it would be divisive in my circle.

Has the Pastor review with you the curriculum?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No way and besides it would be divisive in my circle.

What if not everyone is of your circle?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0915815354/?tag=baptis04-20

Now there is a book I am willing to read! thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

If you're looking for a dispsy, premill perspective that is thorough but easier to grab a hold of you would want to look at Warren Wiersbe's Be Victorious from his Be series of commentaries. The books you gave seem to me to be shooting too high if your audience is as you claim.

Double Post!

 

[OldRegular]

If you're looking for a dispsy, premill perspective that is thorough but easier to grab a hold of you would want to look at Warren Wiersbe's Be Victorious from his Be series of commentaries. The books you gave seem to me to be shooting too high if your audience is as you claim.

I believe that the essential message of the Book of Revelation is that the Church Wins because the Triune God Wins. I am not familiar with Wiersbe's book, Be Victorious, but how can the Church be victorious if they are snatched out of the world and are absent during most of the events in Revelation as dispensationalists claim!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I believe that the essential message of the Book of Revelation is that the Church Wins because the Triune God Wins. I am not familiar with Wiersbe's book, Be Victorious, but how can the Church be victorious if they are snatched out of the world and are absent during most of the events in Revelation as dispensationalists claim!

God already won at the cross. It is not a "future history" event. We celebrate the victory daily in our lives, in our outreach, and in our worship. We don't have to go through the Tribulation to "be victorious," and, in fact, we won't.

 

[OldRegular]

The victory was won at the cross.

Well said since Scripture teaches that Satan has been bound/restricted/defeated by Jesus Christ through the Cross!

Matthew 12:26-30
26. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Hebrews 2:14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Revelation 20:1-3
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

God already won. We celebrate the victory daily in our lives, in our outreach, and in our worship. We don't have to go through the Tribulation to "be victorious," and, in fact, we won't.

The Church will go through whatever tribulation that God allows.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Matthew 24:9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Luke 21:17. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.

A little study of the persecution of Christians, first by the Jews, next by the Roman Empire, followed by the Roman Catholic Church, then the persecution of Christians today show that the above Scripture is prophetic.

Where in Scripture does it say the Church will escape the so-called 'Great Tribulation'?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The Church will go through whatever tribulation that God allows.

Which is none.

1 Thessalonians 5, NASB
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.​

In Luke's epistle, the good doctor recounts in chapter 21, verse 27 how the disciples were told of the end times, the events that would be a sign of "THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD," which, acceptable to those who reject a pre-Trib rapture, is nonetheless the description of exactly that, followed just a few verses later by this:

Luke 21
36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."​

I'm sure less convincing to the deniers, but very valid for the argument of a pre-Trib rapture, is Jewish tradition. In accordance with Jewish custom, when a man came of age to marry, he would add a room on to his father's house for himself and his bride. When the addition was complete, and when the father gave the go-ahead, a trumpet would sound, and the bridegroom would go to meet his bride. Following the wedding ceremony, the bridegroom would take his bride to his father's house, where they would be tucked away for seven days in the newly completed "bridal suite." At the end of seven days, the bridegroom would come out with his bride and introduce her to the community.

That's exactly what's going to happen with us. Jesus, our Bridegroom, is preparing a place for us in heaven, His Father's house (John 14:2). At the appointed time known only by the Father, a trumpet will sound and Jesus will meet us, His bride, in the air to escort us up to the "Bridal Suite" He has prepared for us. We will remain with Him in heaven for seven years before we are presented to the world, where we will rule and reign with Him.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture follows the outline of the Book of Revelation. If you don't embrace a Pre-Tribulation view, your understanding of Revelation becomes as twisted as a pretzel because you've got to put chapters 4 and 5 after chapter 11, if you hold to a Mid-Tribulation stance; after chapter 19 if you take a Post-Tribulation point of view. Only a Pre-Tribulation placement of the Rapture allows for a consistent flow of the Book of Revelation. And Revelation does have a definite order. It is not written, as many claim, so as to "jump around" future history, so that it is not chronilogical. The only reason that is claimed is for the very reason stated above -- you must "rearrange it's history" to deny a Pre-Tribulational Rapture.

The crushing the believer goes through in the world is from Satan. The Tribulation of Revelation 6-19, on the other hand, is from God as He pours out His wrath on a Christ-rejecting world. God will not allow anyone to get hit from both sides. If we experience tribulation in the world because of our faith, we will not experience the Tribulation of those who have none.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evangelist,
Based on comments you've made about your church and the people there - how they don't like to read books, they don't like to dig any deeper than dust, Not interested in theology, etc., I'm going to take a small leap:

Your handout will go no further than the trash can, and your list of recommended reading materials will be ignored.

I hope that doesn't come across as overtly pessimistic. But if your assessment of them is correct, that's more than likely reality.

I'm curious. Are you putting the subject matter together, or is it official curriculum?


I taught a SS school class last year, for young adults (18-26). They were probably the most biblically illiterate group I've ever encountered, and seemed perfectly content to stay that way. A couple of them didn't mind having deeper discussion, but only from a philosophical standpoint - not from scripture.

I guess my point is that you don't necessarily need to shoot for the moon, especially if the class isn't willing to get on the ship.


Maybe you can simply discuss various issues related to eschatology without delving into a theological system. Just guide them into a few of these issues by asking some questions about what they think.

Then have a question and answer period, where anyone can ask a question and have it batted around.

Brother you are correct. It was even worse at my last church in SC. The singles could care less about theology and books. They believed whatever they were told as a robot. It was sad.. While they were fun to hang with they did not divide because they never got into doctrine.

Even a application based book like what David Jeremiah usually writes is too deep for them. We'll I will start my prep work today which is based off a Lahaye book. No not a commentary on Rev but a general sweep of prophecy called Charting the End Times.

 

[OldRegular]

Which is none.

1 Thessalonians 5, NASB
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.​

You, as most dispensationalists are confusing the wrath of God with the hatred of the world.

In Luke's epistle, the good doctor recounts in chapter 21, verse 27 how the disciples were told of the end times, the events that would be a sign of "THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD," which, acceptable to those who reject a pre-Trib rapture, is nonetheless the description of exactly that, followed just a few verses later by this:

Luke 21
36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."​

I repeat part of my previous post. Scripture does not contradict itself!

The Church will go through whatever tribulation that God allows.

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Matthew 24:9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Luke 21:17. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.

A little study of the persecution of Christians, first by the Jews, next by the Roman Empire, followed by the Roman Catholic Church, then the persecution of Christians today show that the above Scripture is prophetic.

Where in Scripture does it say the Church will escape the so-called 'Great Tribulation'?

I'm sure less convincing to the deniers, but very valid for the argument of a pre-Trib rapture, is Jewish tradition. In accordance with Jewish custom, when a man came of age to marry, he would add a room on to his father's house for himself and his bride. When the addition was complete, and when the father gave the go-ahead, a trumpet would sound, and the bridegroom would go to meet his bride. Following the wedding ceremony, the bridegroom would take his bride to his father's house, where they would be tucked away for seven days in the newly completed "bridal suite." At the end of seven days, the bridegroom would come out with his bride and introduce her to the community.

I prefer Scripture as opposed to Jewish tradition! Stephen prior to his stoning said this of his kinsman:

Acts 7:51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

The Apostle Paul says of his kinsman:

1 CorinthiaNS 1:22-25
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

So much for Jewish tradition!

That's exactly what's going to happen with us. Jesus, our Bridegroom, is preparing a place for us in heaven, His Father's house (John 14:2). At the appointed time known only by the Father, a trumpet will sound and Jesus will meet us, His bride, in the air to escort us up to the "Bridal Suite" He has prepared for us. We will remain with Him in heaven for seven years before we are presented to the world, where we will rule and reign with Him.

The passage from John 14 has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture follows the outline of the Book of Revelation.

With all due respects the Book of Revelation says nothing about a pre-trib rapture. Dispensationalism splinters Revelation as it does all of Scripture. The book of Revelation was written for the comfort of the Church, not to discuss some mythical seven year period of tribulation.

If you don't embrace a Pre-Tribulation view, your understanding of Revelation becomes as twisted as a pretzel because you've got to put chapters 4 and 5 after chapter 11, if you hold to a Mid-Tribulation stance; after chapter 19 if you take a Post-Tribulation point of view.

With all due respect that is utter nonsense. You saying that does not make it so.

Only a Pre-Tribulation placement of the Rapture allows for a consistent flow of the Book of Revelation. And Revelation does have a definite order. It is not written, as many claim, so as to "jump around" future history, so that it is not chronilogical. The only reason that is claimed is for the very reason stated above -- you must "rearrange it's history" to deny a Pre-Tribulational Rapture.

Again that is simply the attempt by dispensationalists to force their pre-trib rapture doctrine on the Book of Revelation. Your assumption that the text of the Book is chronological is a false assumption. The Book of Revelation is a picture if the struggle between good and evil from the ascension of Jesus Christ until He returns in Power and Great Glory to resurrect ALL, ALL the dead and to sit on His Throne of Judgment {John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:11-15}.

The crushing the believer goes through in the world is from Satan. The Tribulation of Revelation 6-19, on the other hand, is from God as He pours out His wrath on a Christ-rejecting world. God will not allow anyone to get hit from both sides. If we experience tribulation in the world because of our faith, we will not experience the Tribulation of those who have none.

Dispensationalism is based in large part on a false understanding of a passage from the Book of Daniel and some believe on a so-called revelation by one Margaret MacDonald. Fortunately some in the dispensational camp have decided to stop digging the hole deeper and instead are trying to climb out!

 

[OldRegular]

We'll I will start my prep work today which is based off a Lahaye book. No not a commentary on Rev but a general sweep of prophecy called Charting the End Times.

With all due respect you should start with the Truth as presented in Scripture, for example John 5:28, 29 which teach a general resurrection and judgment. I would never give a SS class anything written by Lehaye or Lehaye and Jenkins unless I were going to condemn it from Scripture.