Featured Is Money all that Important?

While encouraging gifts of talent and expertise throughout the Bible, God returns to the giving of funds to support the Temple/church in helping with upkeep and in funding outreach, so no, I don't believe the things we can do are meant to completely replace the monetary gifts we are responsible for providing, though I do believe in tight financial times we can replace some of those monetary gifts with work on the church property, outreach, and missions work. Tithes and talents weren't meant to be 100% interchangeable.

 

Money isn't everything, but everything costs money.

It is possible to provide services to the church, such as a friend of mine who used to repair the church bus for free (though the church had to buy parts), but I think it is important to give money to the church, as the church knows best what it's needs are.

 

God wants us to give of our gifts but some churches will view the gifts as they do not get them wealthy so they want you to use yours gifts just as long as they still get rich on your money.

 

My personal belief is that the first 10% gross goes to my tithe ... regardless of good or bad financial times. My wife and I have always believe this. When we were first married we were very poor, but tithed. A tithe is not much to ask seeing that the 100% was from God.

The second 10% gross goes to savings and investments. There are two reasons for this:

1. So we will never be a financial burden or anyone else.
2. So we can help others in need that God brings into our lives.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Give 10, save 10, live on the rest.

 

Talents and spiritual gifts are just as important, if not more important, than money. God will provide. He expects us to do His work here until He closes it all down. Money don't share the gospel with the lost, and you don't HAVE to have a building to do it in.

Besides, it's 100%, not just 10... Everything we do should be for the glory of God. If what you are doing cannot be done to bring glory to God, maybe you shouldn't be doing it. The American dream is a lie.

 

Only if his people give.

I agree.

I agree but only to a point. Money does provide the means whereby people can spread the gospel. This may be through the purchase of Bibles and other literature, providing people in need with food, hospital bills, rent help, etc. This opens opportunities to share. Also for mission trips or helping a young person with educational expenses and thereby opening opportunities of telling the gospel story.

I agree

 

The local heating oil company will not accept songs, praises or gentle hearts in return for the product they delivered at $3.78 a gallon. Electric company won't take chickens or fresh garden produce either.

 

As Padre said, try telling that to the oil & gas companies, or the water department. I'm not denigrating the need for spiritual gifts and talents dedicated to serving the church. But I suggest strongly that we also provide financial support. Otherwise you faced with the question of whether, if there is a mortgage on the church building, the loan committee will take a rousing version of "On Calvary" in lieu of payment during those months of short collections during the summer.

 

Agreed - what would Paul have done without the monetary gifts sent his way?

 

I did not say we don't need money, I said spiritual gifts and talents are more valuable and that we are crazy obsessive over cash and how we appear to others in America.

However, I am wondering if you guys think the oil company is more powerful than our God, the creator of everything?

 

I again remind you, while acknowledging that God is more powerful, He also expects us to pay our own way, given He is not in the daily habit of dispensing cash to churches or believers. In this temporal world the oil or gas company still wants cash.

 

Just doing a little thinking out loud here.

Part of the debate depends on what we believe the role of the local church is. Should it be a large building, with hired staff and hooked onto city utilities? Then pony up the money for it.

Should it be a building built by the hands of the attenders, as they could afford supplies, with unpaid minister, song leader, etc? Or perhaps a small rented building? Or meeting in a home?

As you can see with a moment's reflection, church absolutely can happen quite well without anyone's tithe. And church can reflect quite accurately what folks are able and willing to give.

So no, money is not all that important, and the church can do quite well without the tithe.

The question left for the person in the pew is are you willing to attend that sort of small church? If not, perhaps you might reconsider your giving.

Or start a small church.

 

And how is that possible without the tithe?

Might work in a rural setting where there are farmers and other "jack-of-all-trades" who can contribute time, labor and materials. How do you propose this be accomplished in the inner city or the suburbs where these talents are not readily available without a contract-for-hire or a general contractor's expertise? And how do 1,000 people meet in a home? Do you expect to find 100 people in the congregation that size capable of leading a house church of ten each?

Hardly. In fact, not even.

Which is what a tithe is for.

Unless, of course, you actually intend to keep the church going, then it is vitally important, your idealism -- or is that sarcasm? :laugh: -- aside.

Read comment re: " ... money is not all that important ... "

And again, we are back to the tithe.

 

We are to "count the cost" which refers to money. Material treasure can be reduced to its equivalence in money. So we are to be in the world but not of the world. The world's value system is bogus, treasuring what is worthless when we take the long view. But, on the other hand, are not Elders to be sound managers, having a good reputation in the world? Are we not to make the most of what we have, investing wisely to maximize Christ's ministry.

There is nothing wrong with salting away some surplus for a rainy day, like Joseph in Egypt, but there is also nothing wrong with spending down that surplus to meet the needs of our brother's and sisters in Christ.

 

Wow--sure must have stepped on one set of sore toes!

Places I know of the titheless church working just fine: yes, those rural places with jack of all trades folks. Indian reservations. Big cities with home church plants. Remote oil field lease camps. Trailer parks. Apartment buildings. Nursing homes. Senior living apartments.

My point is that NNE need be churchless because of no money to spare. When funds are low, God is not hamstrung nor waiting on funds from NAMB.

And I totally agreed that those expecting paid staff, a nice big building with good heat and ac, etc, better rethink the idea of donating time instead of money.

But then, some people want to fight even when you agree with them :BangHead:

 

You flatter yourself too much. I wear steel-toed boots. :laugh:

No one is required to tithe. It is a step of faith. If funds are low and people wish to hold back some of the tithe to make sure ends meet at the end of the month, no one will hold it against them. They can even use their time and talents to make up the difference, if it seems appropriate.

Of course not. But if one is going to claim Christ, one best be prepared to do all to serve Christ, and while that definitely includes time, talents, gifts, expertise, etc., it cannot be ignored that the gospel also needs money, like it or not.

Has nothing to do with expectations. Paul said staff should be paid.

1 Timothy 5, NASB
17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.
18 For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." ​

The Greek translated "honor" is time, not to be confused with our English word of the same spelling. It means "worthy of the price paid." Clearly Paul believed the shepherd deserved a salary.

That was you agreeing with me? I'd hate to see an example of your disagreeing with me. :smilewinkgrin: :thumbsup:

 

Some of the givingest churches it has been my honor to be part of were not able financially or in some cases, such as in lease camps, not allowed to build a building or pay a staff. God provided us with able men to step up from the ranks and serve as the preacher.

Because we had no overhead, we were able to support the state children's home, the home and foreign mission boards, tend to the "widows and orphans", help with educating future pastors, etc. Don't assume churches that do not teach the tithe are full of slackers who do not give.

And some of the financially richest churches full of tithers were poor stewards, focused more on building a personal empire and big building than on winning the lost. Some tithers figure they have done all that is necessary when they write the check.

My point stands. The tithe is not an obligation for NT believers and yet at the same time can be a very rewarding benchmark in helping us learn stewardship. But let's not kid ourselves that the work of the Kingdom is dependent upon money. It simply isn't.

Money is a very good tool that can aid tremendously in spreading the gospel. It can also be a trap Satan uses to block that spread. But even those who cannot tithe can contribute mightily to the growth of the Kingdom.

This is just personal experience and your mileage may vary, but I'd much rather be in a church where tithing is beyond the reach of many than in one where it is easy and commonplace. Those in the first will often give sacrificially of money, time, talent, and skill. Those in the second usually complain about everything.

And again, if you believe to be a church requires a paid staff, or a building, or any other overhead then as a believer it is your responsibility to help provide those as you are able. But many of us have experienced a more basic form of church and know you don't have to wait for the money to start up, or have to fold when tough economic times dry up the kitty.

Sacrificial giving in those cases may mean sharing meager food with someone hungrier, or giving clothes you need out of your closet to someone in more need. It may mean stopping tithing so you can take in a relative's child or pay a doctor bill for someone out of work.

But I agree with you completely that churches with building ownership and paid staff must be properly funded. Too often folks want the amenities, want staff to do the work of the Kingdom, and want to sit on their wallets.