Featured Is Contemporary Christian Music/Christian Rock wordly and sinful?

I helped bring contemporary music into our church back in the 1990's and saw nothing wrong with it. Of course, back then I was highly dispensational and very into Finneyesque evangelism.

We moved out of the Bible belt and I was forced by geography to detox from CCM and my own personal favorites of southern gospel worship and country gospel worship.

Now we are back where CCM is the rage. We cannot stomach it. Once you go a few years not hearing it, just the truly old hymns, it changes your perception.

Now let me be clear--there is SOME contemporary music that is excellent, and done quite well at church. Songs like Amazing Grace-my chains are gone. Good modern hymns that fit into a hymn sandwich wonderfully, are edifying, and we heartily support that sort of new music.

But once you really experience Christ centered worship--all about Him and not aimed at engendering an emotional response--over a long period of time, you begin to smell manipulation, trances, and opening ourselves up to the control of the "manipulator" when it happens. And you refuse it.

We were at a service good Friday in a neighboring church as visitors. The hymns were wonderful. Most of the CCM was also Christ centered and wonderful. But one song--forgive me, I do not know its name--had one line about "Lord I'm amazed at your love for me" done repetitively at LEAST 30 times. Praise team eyes shut, swaying like belt buckle polishing movement. We watched the crowd fall one by one into that sort of trance, swaying, some swaying in a very sexual manner. Our young grandchild's response was "Ok, I think God gets it by now."

We talked later that we objected to the one song for two reasons. Number one was that it really wasn't worshipping Christ, but allowed the focus to be on the worshipper. Number two was that it really was using the beat, slowed, and then gradually slowing, plus the standing and arms raised and even the lighting as it dimmed to exercise scientific methods of crowd control to bring people to a preplanned emotional response.

So nowadays I challenge people with this: whatever music you prefer in church, try detoxing from it. If you find church boring, or just "don't get as much out of it", or cannot stand going to it without "your" music (no matter what), maybe music has become an idol for you. And if you get angry--really boiling angry--or nasty with people who say they don't like "your" music, then it has become a really powerful idol.

My personal opinion and taste would be that we would all enjoy the freedom to LISTEN and sing along with whatever Christian music hays our wagon. But in church, I personally would eliminate the praise team and the band as they seem to reduce congregational singing. I would put whatever instruments we used (piano, organ, guitar, whatever) out of sight in the back. Put the choir back in the choir loft out of sight, and put the song leader back there also. (All this for 6 months to a year detoxing from the performance and "star" mindset. Remember I am a musician.) Eliminate all the music except hymns for 6 months, then slowing add back the gospel songs, then the better modern hymns.

Perhaps after detoxing from Mr. Finney's capable crowd control techniques we could then have a sensible discussion of what is and what isn't good church music.

Since that isn't likely to happen, if worship is Finneyesque or Pentecostal in the local Baptist church, we opt out. Pastors come and go, so styles change. And not all are hypersensitive if you come in after the music for the preaching. If they are, we can also opt out of preaching service

That is just our opinion, not gospel. But we are free to live what we believe God would have us do.....the whole idea of being Baptist.

 

Great post, Nodak.

One thing jumped out at me:

Really, a sexual manner? I'll not ask you to describe the motions, but I really think you're off base here.

 

What you describe is how I interpret Romans 8:26.

But being led in a single chorus, over and over ... it's the same thing I saw with the Charismatics, especially one Charismatic service on a military base where, after about 5-10 minutes of the same verse over and over, one guy started speaking in tongues at the front of the congregation while everyone else continued to sing the verse, people started falling down "slain in the spirit," and I actually heard the guy at the front twice tell people they had to vote for Clinton -- but none of the other people around me heard it, because they were basically asleep on their feet and not paying attention any more....

I'm not totally against CCM. I don't like a lot of it, but I'm not totally against it. In other words, I repeat what I said in a previous post: Romans 14:14.

 

Nothing but crowd manipulation! Somewhat like the continuous repetition of "Hail Mary" by the RC's! Or it might be compared to the Buddhist chants & prayer wheels.

 

I assure you the lyrics to Christian rock are not at all hard to understand for those who are used to the music style.

At first I had to constantly look up the lyrics to even songs by Casting Crowns--and they're very mild. Especially compared to other bands I now listen to, such as Disciple and Red (which delve into hard rock and metal). (The song shown by Casting Crowns earlier in this thread was one of the few that deviates from their soft rock style.)

But once I got used to it, I had no trouble. And in any case, it's not hard to look up the lyrics if one can't understand them.


Anyway, if you're going to compare it to speaking in tongues, Paul does advise the churches to be sure a translation is provided when someone speaks in tongues in church.
And since most churches do provide readable lyrics, I'd say they're not violating anything.

 

I don't understand it = babble.

I guess nobody should sing in any foreign language. OR has deemed anything that he cannot understand anathema.

 

Personally, I believe that music is not Amoral. I have loose standards compared to my IFB brethren, however. I listen to country, CCM, and some classic rock.

But there is a line where good lyrics are outweighed by music. At a very minimum it gets confusing. If I yell "I LOVE YOU!" in an angry fashion at my wife, she'll get two messages; what I'm saying and how I say it.

Same with music. If I am saying I love God, but screaming or using "angry" music, then it's a confusing message. And God is not the author of confusion.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::sleeping_2:

 

Well, true.
I don't think I know of any Christian band that literally screams "Oh Father how I adore you" to an angry screaming guitar.

Those things are used to display certain emotions at appropriate times, or at least they should be.
Hm, this song for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jbYogKiZcw

The screaming is used to portray the angry mob screaming to crucify Jesus, or when Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss.
But on other parts the vocals are much softer and subdued. This song is meant to tell a story; in this case Jesus' sacrifice. The music communicates the emotions involved, pain, love, victory, etc.

And metal isn't just about anger; it can also be about power, intensity, etc. When used correctly it can be pretty effective. Music is supposed to express emotions.

Now there are some bands that scream 90% of the lyrics, and personally that doesn't appeal to me.

 

Reaching the Navajo people can be quite a challenge today. The church has been working with Navajo's more more than 100 years and they are still considered an unreached people group because less than 2 % are actively engaged in growth and discipleship. The other 48% are still stuck in syncrotism and the remainder just flat out reject the white man's religion.

There is a good reason for this. There was a time early on when the white Christian came on the res, told the Navajo people they had to act just like the white man in order to be Christian, and the children were even punished for speaking their own language in the schools we set up. They were told they had to cut their hair, talk like us, sit in a church building like us, and sing like us in order to be Christian.

Forcing the white man's preferences on the Navajo people has done more harm to the Kingdom of God than most anything else.


Everyone has their preferences and people seem to tie up great amounts of emotions in them. For crying out loud if you do not like it don't do it and leave everyone else alone.

 

True, Rev. But there is a line where culture is outside what is biblically acceptable. For instance, you wouldn't condone cannibalism simply because someone grew up in that culture.

And it feels to me that you think that just because someone posts their opinion here, they are trying to change the world to see things their way. I have never berated someone for the music they choose to listen to. But here, I share my opinion. That's the entire point of this board. Share and grow.

 

I personally found your post an interesting addition to the discussion, Sapper.

I love any excuse to talk about music. lol I like music for much the same reason I like art: it's a way to express yourself. Both forms of art attempt to communicate emotion in ways that people can relate to.

 

The difficulty in making posts in a forum like this is it is virtually impossible to post a caveat for every little thing.

For many on this forum they are. I can assure you of that.

I have never suggested you have. If something in one of my posts does not apply to you then you can assume I was not aiming it at you. If I want to address something specific to you I will quote you. Otherwise it is best just to take in what you can from my posts and spit out the bones.

BY the way I agree with you on the angry music. However, someone who listens to that may be influenced or blessed by it.

 

You seem to think because a person has been saved their flesh is pure or there is no warfare of the flesh and spirit anymore. Prov 6:27-28 Can a man take fire in his bosom and his clothes not be burned ? Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned ?

 

This is the point I was making earlier in calling one link "noise". The following link was especially nothing but noise.

Even after TND supplied the words it was still noise and in my opinion very hateful noise as sung!

 

David Cloud is an interesting character. I actually have his book on repentance and he is on point there. Pretty much everything else he says is just out in left field, particularly when it comes to music.

I dare anyone to say that contemporary songs like these are sinful:

In Christ Alone - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvnpcKUrCo4
All I Have is Christ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGSNv3vK3I
Behold our God - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqrli3Lkf58

This is just a brief sampling of some of the great modern hymns (contemporary Christian) that are being made today.

I also like Lecrae. Would I sing "Don't Waste Your Life" in church? Probably not (I can't keep up for one thing!) but that doesn't mean I can't relax and listen to his music and worship the Lord and be challenged by the lyrics.

:thumbsup:
Shai Linne is awesome. This song was my introduction to him and my jaw hit the ground. I had no idea such a thing was possible.

 

Speaking of Casting Crowns, I always get the electric spine shiver when I listen to this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xODpgyqGCYM

 

Let's see, I was at the service, so I am off base by saying some were swaying in a sexual manner????

It happened. Not all the swayers were doing that. But one old lady and two young ladies and one young man were...obliviously embarrassing to those around them. Remember Michael Jackson and where he like to put his hand when he did his uckiest moves? Was that sexual? Or Beyoncé's more infamous move? Or Myley Cyrus?

Nah, I come from a family known in Nashville. I know when music is being used, be it the beat or the tempo or the "voice" even in instrumentals. I know sometimes the band members would ask the band to do a certain song a certain way so they could go dance with a groupie. Doing the song "that way" gave them a better shot at getting in her pants, was the phrase used.

Music is a powerful mood influencer. That is why militaries don't use lullabies to stir up the troups, but marches. That is why there is the whole movement of music therapy. Different music causes the release of different neurotransmitters. Some music is by design going to lead to anger and rebellion. That is why some prisons ban it, and some schools.

As to trances, with all due respect, repeating the same line that many times as you slow the music and dim the lights is using music in a seductive, mood setting manner so you will be more susceptible to suggestion. So can playing screaming angry music--every band member knows that if you do that, then when you stop causing people discomfort they will do whatever you ask, like pony up more tips.

I'm not anti music in church. I'm not anti judicious use of any genre of music.

Many years ago we moved far north and at the same time I had a minor health problem. Combining it and latitude made changing barometric pressure extremely painful in one ear for about 6 months. During that time ALL music was so physically painful I avoided it like the plague.

I learned during those 6 months that much of my relationship with Jesus wasn't one at all, just emotions and neurotransmitter releases caused by music. In fact, I found myself to be a radically different person than I had been when I listened to music of some sort or another, often Christian, pretty much all my waking hours. It was as powerful a time of detoxing as you can find. Those brain chemicals really were my "drug."

My ear improved, we moved back somewhat south, and voila I can enjoy music again. And listen to it and enjoy I do, a great deal. Only now I am very aware of what physiologic and therefore mood altering it is doing to me. I'm more careful not to listen to stuff than leads me in a bad way and to listen to stuff that draws me closer to the Lord. If I want upbeat happy music to beat the blues I am very aware just exactly how I am doing music therapy, rather than thinking "Oh his music really blesses me."

One thing this convinced me of is that I no longer am willing to participate in "corporate worship in a Pentecostal manner." I'm Baptist to the core. Use the preaching, the teaching, the singing, and yes even the praying in the church service to tell about Jesus and I'll be there. Try to make it some sort of intimate emotional contact moment between me and the Lord and I am out of there. That isn't your job, it is the job of the Holy Spirit.

In fact, while I realize it isn't a popular stance, I don't believe there is such a thing as "corporate worship". Rather, we worship individually even when we are all together in one place. But then again, I don't believe the church service is some sort of offering we bring to God. I believe it is for giving out the gospel.

Your mileage may vary.