Pastor turned athiest

[Van]

From professing Christian to professing Atheist is a good read.

First he was not taught that turning and trusting requires a full blown comment to Christ, as our only priority rather than one of our priorities. Easy Believism claimed another young victim.

Next, he went from the frying pan to the fire, switching to 5 point Calvinism. Which again demonstrates he relied on the writings and thoughts of others (Calvinist books) rather than learning how to critically read God's inspired word which is trustworthy and reliable and authoritative for living our lives.

 

[Aaron]

I read all four articles of how he left the faith, plus several other articles. I believe he tells us what really caused his shift in beliefs, and that was reading many, many books outside the Bible.

Probably by now, some readers are wondering, why the history lesson, Bruce? I think it is important for me to establish several things:

I am an avid reader of books
I am an avid student of whatever subject I am reading about
I am willing to go where the evidence leads me
I am willing to change my beliefs even if it costs me or makes me unpopular
Truth matters more to me than being accepted by my peers, friends or family

When I was a pastor, pastor friends and parishioners loved me for these traits. They applauded my willingness to be true to the Word of God, even if they disagreed with me. Now these same people think I read too much, study too much. I have been told that the reason I am an atheist is because of books! (and there is some truth in this statement) If I would only stop reading all these books and read THE BOOK, all would be well, one former parishioner told me.

Like the leopard who can’t change its spots, I can’t stop reading and studying. Fifty plus years ago, my mother created an intellectual monster when she taught me to read. She wanted her eldest son to be like her, a devourer or literature, a person who valued truth above the approbation of men. I owe her a great debt of gratitude.

Interesting articles, and I do respect this fellow for his honesty.

My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn't he just say, I don't believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you're-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?

Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.

If Adam couldn't point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ's Bride.

 

[Aaron]

Your still on that bs?

Just pointing out that you're not willing to lift a finger to do what you demand of others, AND that what you demand of others really isn't in line with the commands of Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just pointing out that you're not willing to lift a finger to do what you demand of others, AND that what you demand of others really isn't in line with the commands of Christ.

Did I, I make demands on people, how so? And how did you come to these conclusions?

 

[Revmitchell]

I know what it means to me in my experience. YOU do not know my experience.

And you have proven my point.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn't he just say, I don't believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you're-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?

Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.

If Adam couldn't point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ's Bride.

Ahhhhh, didn't you see the DONATIONS button on the right hand side of the blog? :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

I don't understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn't see anything different.

We excuse away our drinking.
We excuse away our smoking.
We excuse away what we watch.
We excuse away what we listen to.
We excuse away why we disrespect authority.
We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ.
We excuse away the way we dress.
We excuse away our prejudices.
We excuse away our lack of love.
We excuse away our judging outside the church.
We excuse away our gluttony...our gossipping...and our phonyness.
We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith.
We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others.
We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.

Just to name a few.

He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn't see anything different.

We excuse away our drinking.
We excuse away our smoking.
We excuse away what we watch.
We excuse away what we listen to.
We excuse away why we disrespect authority.
We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ.
We excuse away the way we dress.
We excuse away our prejudices.
We excuse away our lack of love.
We excuse away our judging outside the church.
We excuse away our gluttony...our gossipping...and our phonyness.
We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith.
We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others.
We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.

Just to name a few.

He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.

YUP...... Funny stuff right! :laugh: BTW, dont you support Obama?

 

[Zaac]

My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn't he just say, I don't believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you're-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?

Because that's what he experienced. People expect to see something different when they go to the church. And lately all they are seeing is folks whose lives look no different than their own.

I mean personally I think some of you have got the nastiest dispositions I've ever seen and if I were questioning my faith and encountered a bunch of folks in church who act like some of you, i could understand someone leaving.

Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.

There's just something very unChristlike in that statement and is no doubt a display of the attitutdes that drive folks away.

 

[Winman]

And you have proven my point.

And who are you to define what Lordship Salvation is?

Why is your view of Lordship Salvation correct and mine isn't?

I have attended lots of Baptist churches in 50 years, I am sure the same is true for you. Some are far more legalistic than others. I have attended churches where you are told what you can wear for clothing, watch on TV or listen to on the radio, what sports you can play (no cards or billiards for example), etc...

Now, I am a free thinker, anybody who reads my posts can see that. I don't let others think for me, or tell me what to believe. Nevertheless, I have seen churches that exercise a great deal of control over their members. I have attended others that didn't.

But don't come on here and tell me that you alone have Lordship Salvation all figured out. You don't.

 

[Zaac]

YUP...... Funny stuff right! :laugh: BTW, dont you support Obama?

Now THAT is funny. :laugh: He's an extremely wicked man and I wouldn't support him or his policies if someone paid me handsomely to do so.

 

[Winman]

My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn't he just say, I don't believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you're-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?

Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.

If Adam couldn't point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ's Bride.

You should never simply dismiss or blow off people that disagree with you.

Years ago I heard a preacher say one of the smartest things I have ever heard. He said that he always listens to criticism, because there is always some truth to it.

And he was right. When you dismiss all criticism, you are setting yourself up for a fall.

 

[Zaac]

You should never simply dismiss or blow off people that disagree with you.

Years ago I heard a preacher say one of the smartest things I have ever heard. He said that he always listens to criticism, because there is always some truth to it.

And he was right. When you dismiss all criticism, you are setting yourself up for a fall.

And not to mention the "just let Bruce go" attitude. Where would we be if...?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now THAT is funny. :laugh: He's an extremely wicked man and I wouldn't support him or his policies if someone paid me handsomely to do so.

Then thats good to hear.....what about Biden?:laugh:

 

[Winman]

He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.

They ARE the same. They are sinners. They are forgiven, not perfect.

And that is the problem with Lordship Salvation, it turns everybody into a fruit counter. Instead of rejoicing that our sins are all gone, we spend all our time looking at our neighbor and judging whether he is a REAL believer or not.

Your post is a perfect example.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And not to mention the "just let Bruce go" attitude. Where would we be if...?

If what? Can you convince him better than the Holy Spirit can? See Aaron views him as a reprobate......do you know what that is? Here is where ones point of view as to understanding scripture comes into play.....and I find the whole thing fascinating!

And Go Further with this......look at his wife & her present position & prospective. Then note that they were both raised up in the Fundy church......could there have been any subtle indoctrination going on there? Again utterly fascinating..... From Fundy Baptist Pastor to avowed Atheist. Track the progression......its fun.

 

[Zaac]

They ARE the same. They are sinners. They are forgiven, not perfect.

And that is the problem with Lordship Salvation, it turns everybody into a fruit counter. Instead of rejoicing that our sins are all gone, we spend all our time looking at our neighbor and judging whether he is a REAL believer or not.

Your post is a perfect example.

You better look at them and wonder if they are a Believer or not. If you've sat underneath the preaching of the Gospel for 5, 10, 15, 25 years and your life looks the same as it did before you " came to Christ", you're darn skippy that I'm gonna righteously judge and question whether or not someone who says they are in the Body, actually is. Why would I sit around and let someone go to hell?

Nobody said anything about perfection. But when I go through just the short list of things that I mentioned, there should be a marked difference between those indwelled by the Holy Spirit and those who are not.

There are some goats in with the sheep and the Body better not be afraid to say so.

 

[Winman]

Here is the article everyone should read;

http://brucegerencser.net/2014/02/stopped-believing/

And here is the REAL reason he lost his faith:

Freed from the ministry, my wife and I spent five years visiting over a hundred Christian churches. We were looking for a Christianity that mattered, a Christianity that took seriously the teachings of Jesus. During this five-year period, I read countless books written by authors from a broad spectrum of Christendom. I read books by authors such as Thomas Merton, Robert Farrar Capon, Henri Nouwen, Wendell Berry, Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, John Shelby Spong, Soren Kierkegaard, and NT Wright. These authors challenged my Evangelical understanding of Christianity and its teachings.

I decided I would go back to the Bible, study it again, and redetermine what it was I REALLY believed. During this time, I began reading books by authors such as Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman, These two authors, along with several others, attacked the foundation of my Evangelical belief in the inerrant, inspired word of God. Their assault on this foundation brought my Evangelical house tumbling down. I desperately tried to find some semblance of the Christianity I once believed, but I came to realize that my faith was gone.

I tried, for a time, to convince myself that I could find some sort of Christianity that would work for me. Polly and I visited numerous liberal or progressive Christian churches, but I found that these expressions of faith would not do for me. My faith was gone. Later, Polly would come to the same conclusion.

I turned to the internet to find help. I came upon sites like exchristian.net and Debunking Christianity. I found these sites to be quite helpful as I tried to make sense of what was going on in my life. I began reading the books of authors like John Loftus, Hector Avalos, Robert M. Price, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Richard Dawkins.

The four books that made the biggest impression on me were:

Jesus, Interrupted by Bart Ehrman
Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman
God’s Problem by Bart Ehrman
The Evolution of God by Robert Wright

I read many authors and books besides the ones listed here. (I say this to keep someone from saying, but you didn’t read so and so or you didn’t read _______) So, if I had to give one reason WHY I am no longer a Christian today it would be BOOKS. My thirst for knowledge, a thirst I still have today, even though it is greatly hindered by chronic illness and pain, is what drove me to re-investigate the claims of Christianity and the teachings of the Bible. This investigation led me to conclude that the claims of Christianity and the teachings of the Bible could not rationally and intellectually be sustained. Try as I might to hang on to some sort of Christian faith, the slippery slope I found myself on would not let me stand still. Eventually, I found myself saying, I no longer believe in the Christian God. For a time I was an agnostic, but I got tired of explaining myself, so I took on the atheist moniker, and now no one misunderstands what I believe. (see A Letter to Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners and Dear Friend)

The reason this fellow became an atheist is because he lost faith that the Bible was inerrant, inspired word of God.

That is why I am a King James only, because I MUST believe that God's perfect and preserved word is in the world today. If I believed it was not, I would throw my Bible in the trashcan and live any way I want.

Now, don't turn this into a versions debate, I am just saying I can understand this fellow's point of view. He allowed men to convince him the Bible is not really true, and that very moment his faith failed.

 

[Salty]

I don't understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn't see anything different.

...We excuse away our gluttony...our gossipping...and our phonyness. ...

Just to name a few.

He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.

Zaac had a very good list, I only "quoted" one item, the one item that most Baptist churches joke about. Maybe it is time to stop joking about this serious issue of obeseness . It is bad for our health, yet many of us will condemn those who smoke, drink, "fool around" and ect. Heart disease causes a death in the U.S. every 53 seconds. Excessive weight is a contributor to Heart Disease.

If I am pointing a finger at you, keep in mind that the three fingers pointing back to me each have a #- 42.3

Do we truly believe James 5:17

 

[Zaac]

If what?

If someone had given up on us?

Can you convince him better than the Holy Spirit can? See Aaron views him as a reprobate......do you know what that is? Here is where ones point of view as to understanding scripture comes into play.....and I find the whole thing fascinating!

Nope. I absolutely cannot. But he has to ENCOUNTER a working of the Holy Spirit for the Holy SPirit to convince him. That demands that I chase after him in love until the Spirit of God directs otherwise.

I'm a lover of people because Christ first loved me. Where some may see a reprobate mind I can see someone who has yet to genuinely encounter the love of Christ from another person. And Aaron is just mean. :laugh:

And Go Further with this......look at his wife & her present position & prospective. Then note that they were both raised up in the Fundy church......could there have been any subtle indoctrination going on there? Again utterly fascinating..... From Fundy Baptist Pastor to avowed Atheist. Track the progression......its fun.

But i can fully see how one would become jaded. When you spend all that time with folks who are just mean spirited and more concerned about politics than they are about loving people, but who also want you to believe they love Jesus? yep , after a while, if you're not grounded in Christ, that'll drive folks either to leave those surroundings in search of some folks who truly LIVE like they know Christ, or it'll drive them away from established "religion" of any kind.