Ideas on how to love and serve others in church

[evangelist6589]

Evan - Is your wife working as well to pay off debts? You both have no children so this is the time to buckle down and get that debt paid off. You buy books. Put that money towards your debt instead. Use your local library and your church library. Sell those things you don't need. You CAN pay off debt - I've seen it done on very small salaries by people who live in expensive areas. The key here though is .... desire. If you desire to pay off your debt and be a man of your word (you promised to pay it off when you took the debt), then you do everything possible to pay it down, even going so far as to sell plasma if needed.

It also may depend on the level of debt. These people you speak of how much debt did they have?? Desire is one factor but believe me I have heard plenty of callers on the Ramsey show have lots of desire but they lacked the job skills or got a non marketable degree or they failed the bar exam and had. 100G in student loans and we're not lawyers!

Imagine that. 100G and you failed the bar exam. One caller had all the desire but Dave had no solution for him.

 

[Aaron]

Actually she has a child and her income goes towards him.

Stop preaching now and provide for that family. One who does not provide for his own is worse than an infidel.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

John, you posted this on another thread. I'm not going to derail that one, so I post it here:

The debt thread for example you DID NOT READ or wanted to read what you wanted to hear and wanted to believe about me.

How about I let you speak for yourself?

Actually she has a child and her income goes towards him. We live in a costly area of Colorado. I do not buy many new books as most are USED or FREE believe me I shop online sites. But regardless it would be less than $300 so a pinch in the wind of my debt level due to student loans from a long time ago.

I don't know how much you owe, but I'd guess that $300 would be a welcome payment to one of your creditors, yet you make an excuse here instead of saying, "OK, I'll spend that money as I should."

The key is to continue to eye job sites for better paying positions allowing me to make progress on my debts. I remember a caller called Dave a month or so ago with a under 30K job like mine and allot of debt. He suggested she better her job skills as what she made was just living money.

Going online to find a job is OK when you have a job and are meeting your obligations. Besides online job ads don't tell you who's really hiring anyway. The companies that post online are not urgently trying to fill a need. They're posting a "wish list." You desperately need a second job. It's way past time to go door to door in shopping centers, strip malls, office buildings, and leave resumés everywhere. You have a wife and child to support and everything you've said here and elsewhere on this thread is selfish and self-centered. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is.

It also may depend on the level of debt. These people you speak of how much debt did they have??

Who cares how much debt someone else has?? We're talking about you -- you always talk about your debt, so let's stick to the subject, OK?

Desire is one factor but believe me I have heard plenty of callers on the Ramsey show have lots of desire but they lacked the job skills or got a non marketable degree or they failed the bar exam and had. 100G in student loans and we're not lawyers!

The level of desire one has is evident in the lengths to which he will go to meet his obligations. And ... ? Where does that leave you?

Imagine that. 100G and you failed the bar exam. One caller had all the desire but Dave had no solution for him.

Which is totally irrelevant to your situation.

Debt addiction is more than compulsive shopping. Someone who is addicted to debt uses debt as a crutch for solving their financial and personal problems without any plan for living differently or getting out of debt. They also use it as an excuse for never improving their financial situation, and in fact rather like to wallow in their difficulties by suggesting they are far too big to resolve or that life circumstances make it impossible to solve, rather than just digging in and resolving to pay off the debt, no matter how long it takes. Other signs include living paycheck to paycheck and never planning for the future, constantly being in financial crisis, or being unwilling to take care of oneself in order to pay creditors.

So again, I ask, John ...

Sound familiar ... ?

 

[evangelist6589]

John, you posted this on another thread. I'm not going to derail that one, so I post it here:How about I let you speak for yourself?I don't know how much you owe, but I'd guess that $300 would be a welcome payment to one of your creditors, yet you make an excuse here instead of saying, "OK, I'll spend that money as I should."Going online to find a job is OK when you have a job and are meeting your obligations. Besides online job ads don't tell you who's really hiring anyway. The companies that post online are not urgently trying to fill a need. They're posting a "wish list." You desperately need a second job. It's way past time to go door to door in shopping centers, strip malls, office buildings, and leave resumés everywhere. You have a wife and child to support and everything you've said here and elsewhere on this thread is selfish and self-centered. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is.Who cares how much debt someone else has?? We're talking about you -- you always talk about your debt, so let's stick to the subject, OK?The level of desire one has is evident in the lengths to which he will go to meet his obligations. And ... ? Where does that leave you?Which is totally irrelevant to your situation.So again, I ask, John ...

Denver metro is very expensive rent being more than 1G a month. I make 14/hr at 40 hours and so a pt job 10-14/hr @ 12-20 hours a week won't do much to student loans of 60G. As Dave Ramsey has told numerous callers in my boat I need a better income. So if a part time job taught me new job skills or new experience leading to a better salary I would take it. So I will keep my eye out for such jobs.

 

[RLBosley]

My advice is: 1) Leave this church and join a Calvinist church. 2) Quit preaching and work to pay off your debts. 3) Focus on your wife and providing a home for her.

When you and your wife are agreed and no longer unequally yoked, and when you're debt free . . .

Then you can preach.

Your debt is your addiction. It controls you, you don't control it.

So get a second job. When Christians accumulate debt, it is a poor witness not to make paying it off a priority. If your current job doesn't pay enough, then you need to get a second job and keep working it until the debt is paid. Live off the first job, pay off debt with the second.

Figure out your biggest debt -- the monthly payment that eats up the most income -- and start paying double on it while paying the minimum on the other debts. Once the first is paid down, take the second biggest income-eater and do the same thing. In a few years, you will have no debt, you can quit the second job, and you can street preach.

But spending time on the streets preaching while you have what appears, from your posts, to be a mountainous debt that has put you in dire straits and which obviously places stress on you, your wife, your marriage and your faith -- how can you expect for God to honor your work in the streets when you don't do what is right by your wife and family, or your creditors? That's a poor witness, and you need to do the right thing. Stop complaining. Do something about it.

Excellent advice.

Though I will say that he doesn't necessarily need to quit open air preaching if he has a second job. I did it for most of a year; 2 jobs, Monday through Friday (Saturday often times too) and street evangelism/open air preaching Saturday night. It is doable.

If you are under a lot of debt I believe you are morally obligated to everything you can to pay it off. The sooner the better. Any little bit helps, even if the 2nd job only nets a couple hundred a month. Everything helps.

 

[Winman]

Denver metro is very expensive rent being more than 1G a month. I make 14/hr at 40 hours and so a pt job 10-14/hr @ 12-20 hours a week won't do much to student loans of 60G. As Dave Ramsey has told numerous callers in my boat I need a better income. So if a part time job taught me new job skills or new experience leading to a better salary I would take it. So I will keep my eye out for such jobs.

Well, that's not a lot of money to pay debt with, but you need to quit buying books and DVDs all the time. You probably haven't read half of them.

If you can pay just $20 per week on your debt, that's $1040 per year. It might take you ten years to pay your debt off, but someday you will. It's slow and steady.

But you need to quit spending money you don't have. I do not have any debt. That is not because I am a genius, or make fantastic money, but because I have a rule I do not spend money I do not have. You don't have to have everything your eye sees.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Denver metro is very expensive rent being more than 1G a month.

I lived in Colorado for six years, '04-'10, John -- I know you can find cheaper housing than that, and in decent neighborhoods, so don't try to tell me that. You could cut $200, easily, out of your monthly rent. If you can't find a place in Denver, move south all the way to Palmer Lake. It's close the the Springs, and only 30 minutes from Littleton, 45 minutes from the 16th Street Mall, up CO-105. And you'll pay no where near $1,000/month for rent.

I make 14/hr at 40 hours and so a pt job 10-14/hr @ 12-20 hours a week won't do much to student loans of 60G.

Assuming you make an average of $12/hr @ 15 hours working the part-time job, after taxes you have about $2,400. That doesn't count your wife's income. It ain't much, but there are pastors on this board making less and doing fine. I worked for a couple years out there at a rescue mission earning about the same thing, and had no problem living on it, and I had a new car loan and $900 a month house payment. So now what's your excuse, John? If you don't have the money to pay off your debt, it isn't because you don't have the income to do it. You haven't decided its important enough.

As Dave Ramsey has told numerous callers in my boat I need a better income. So if a part time job taught me new job skills or new experience leading to a better salary I would take it. So I will keep my eye out for such jobs.

Don't just "keep your eye out" for such a job, go find the job!

And by the way, I'm between clients right now, and its Friday, so I don't have a lot of appointments. I've already been to the two job sites where I have houses going up and won't need to return til after lunch, so I've got some time on my hands.

But what are you doing online? You could be out knocking on doors of potential employers.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well, that's not a lot of money to pay debt with, but you need to quit buying books and DVDs all the time. You probably haven't read half of them.



If you can pay just $20 per week on your debt, that's $1040 per year. It might take you ten years to pay your debt off, but someday you will. It's slow and steady.



But you need to quit spending money you don't have. I do not have any debt. That is not because I am a genius, or make fantastic money, but because I have a rule I do not spend money I do not have. You don't have to have everything your eye sees.

I don't spend money I do not have. However I had medical and axe repairs come up and I did not have a income. But these days I pay all credit off and have no new balance unless my car breaks down and it costs more than the $300 I saved this check.

I have been through Crown and even they say I can have a little for leisure and other costs and so books and DVD's work if on a budget which I have. But they also agree I need a better paying position. I would work OT but none if available for my position but maybe in September when we get moved I will get 50 hours a week at the new location as it's busier there.

 

[evangelist6589]

I lived in Colorado for six years, '04-'10, John -- I know you can find cheaper housing than that, and in decent neighborhoods, so don't try to tell me that. You could cut $200, easily, out of your monthly rent.Assuming you make an average of $12/hr @ 15 hours working the part-time job, after taxes you have about $2,400. That doesn't count your wife's income. It ain't much, but there are pastors on this board making less and doing fine. I worked for a couple years out there at a rescue mission earning about the same thing, and had no problem living on it, and I had a new car loan and $900 a month house payment. So now what's your excuse, John? If you don't have the money to pay off your debt, it isn't because you don't have the income to do it. You haven't decided its important enough.Don't just "keep your eye out" for such a job, go find the job!

And by the way, I'm between clients right now, and its Friday, so I don't have a lot of appointments. I've already been to the two job sites where I have houses going up and won't need to return til after lunch, so I've got some time on my hands.

But what are you doing online? You could be out knocking on doors of potential employers.

My wife loves the house and we live in a good area. However I will agree I need to spend more time in pursuit of a PT job and not just any PT job but one that will develop and build me more.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well, that's not a lot of money to pay debt with, but you need to quit buying books and DVDs all the time. You probably haven't read half of them.



If you can pay just $20 per week on your debt, that's $1040 per year. It might take you ten years to pay your debt off, but someday you will. It's slow and steady.



But you need to quit spending money you don't have. I do not have any debt. That is not because I am a genius, or make fantastic money, but because I have a rule I do not spend money I do not have. You don't have to have everything your eye sees.

No I have not read half of them correct and have wasted money if not the books are bought USED most of the time. However I do read cover to cover some of them. But yes indeed too many books. I bought my wife one recently however and I will say that some send me books for FREE.

But yes I can agree not to buy as many books even if USED.

 

[evangelist6589]

At the camp retreat the IFB speaker was constantly trying to get everyone to buy books and the books of Paul Chappell. I walked away from the conference wth only a booklet for $1.50. I am doing better!!!

 

[Winman]

I don't spend money I do not have. However I had medical and axe repairs come up and I did not have a income. But these days I pay all credit off and have no new balance unless my car breaks down and it costs more than the $300 I saved this check.

You are always talking about new books you bought. You need to spend that money on bills.

Axe repairs?

I have been through Crown and even they say I can have a little for leisure and other costs and so books and DVD's work if on a budget which I have. But they also agree I need a better paying position. I would work OT but none if available for my position but maybe in September when we get moved I will get 50 hours a week at the new location as it's busier there.

Don't listen to Crown, send that money in to pay bills.

All those books do is keep you mixed up. One week you come on here saying one thing, the next week you say just the opposite, all according to which book and author you are listening to at the time.

Read your Bible, you don't need men to tell you what it says.

 

[evangelist6589]

You are always talking about new books you bought. You need to spend that money on bills.



Axe repairs?











Don't listen to Crown, send that money in to pay bills.



All those books do is keep you mixed up. One week you come on here saying one thing, the next week you say just the opposite, all according to which book and author you are listening to at the time.



Read your Bible, you don't need men to tell you what it says.

Have you read Ephesians? He gave some teachers to equip the saints. Books excite one in the word of God.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Have you read Ephesians? He gave some teachers to equip the saints.

Teachers in the first century taught in person, up close and personal.

Books excite one in the word of God.

Books of the Bible, yes. Everything else is just the opinion of some man -- or, over the last 50 years, some woman.

And I believe this whole post qualifies as yet another excuse.

 

[evangelist6589]

Teachers in the first century taught in person, up close and personal.Books of the Bible, yes. Everything else is just the opinion of some man -- or, over the last 50 years, some woman.

And I believe this whole post qualifies as yet another excuse.

I disagree with you and also your view on preaching. Do you attend a church in debt? Do you have mortgage payments? The gospel is far beyond me and my problems but glorifies God as he may use me to bring the elect to salvation so therefore I will preach when I can.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I disagree with you and also your view on preaching.

With due respect, John, that doesn't surprise me.

Do you attend a church in debt? Do you have mortgage payments?

We have manageable debt. You don't, or you wouldn't constantly be expressing worry about it. So the question's irrelevant.

The gospel is far beyond me and my problems but glorifies God as he may use me to bring the elect to salvation so therefore I will preach when I can.

Fine. Just make sure you're paying down you're debt at the same time. If you're not, it's a poor witness and your ministry will not be honored by God.

 

[evangelist6589]

You are always talking about new books you bought. You need to spend that money on bills.



Axe repairs?











Don't listen to Crown, send that money in to pay bills.



All those books do is keep you mixed up. One week you come on here saying one thing, the next week you say just the opposite, all according to which book and author you are listening to at the time.



Read your Bible, you don't need men to tell you what it says.

Sorry it was car repairs.

 

[Winman]

Teachers in the first century taught in person, up close and personal.Books of the Bible, yes. Everything else is just the opinion of some man -- or, over the last 50 years, some woman.

And I believe this whole post qualifies as yet another excuse.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Exactly, I believe Ephesians 4:11 means teachers who teach believers what the scriptures are truly saying in the church, not all these multitudes of books on all sorts of subjects you see at the Christian bookstore.

 

[Winman]

For example, John has taken two courses on street preaching from WOTM. I imagine he had to pay for those courses.

Where in the Bible are we given instructions on how to street preach? John insists we have to preach the Ten Commandments, where do the scriptures tell us to stand in the street and yell the Ten Commandments at others?

John, I am not trying to insult you here, I think it is great you have a heart for lost folks and preach on the streets. But where did WOTM get these methods you insist must be followed?

I see Jesus sitting down in a boat and making all the people sit down. He used the water to amplify his voice so he wouldn't have to shout. I didn't see him telling folks they were sinners as WOTM teaches.

Mar 4:1 And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.
2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

This to me is a very decent and orderly service, not unlike church service itself. It is not this embarrassing commotion where the crowd is incited into a frenzy.

I am not saying you do that John, none of your videos I have seen have you done this. But I have seen many videos of street preachers that get crowds upset, often the police are called. I don't believe this is what we are to do.

If you read of Paul, often he preached in the street and a commotion ensued, but that was because the Jews stirred the people up, not because Paul was shouting at them the Ten Commandments.

So where did WOTM get this method from?

 

[evangelist6589]

For example, John has taken two courses on street preaching from WOTM. I imagine he had to pay for those courses.



Where in the Bible are we given instructions on how to street preach? John insists we have to preach the Ten Commandments, where do the scriptures tell us to stand in the street and yell the Ten Commandments at others?



John, I am not trying to insult you here, I think it is great you have a heart for lost folks and preach on the streets. But where did WOTM get these methods you insist must be followed?



I see Jesus sitting down in a boat and making all the people sit down. He used the water to amplify his voice so he wouldn't have to shout. I didn't see him telling folks they were sinners as WOTM teaches.



Mar 4:1 And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.

2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,



This to me is a very decent and orderly service, not unlike church service itself. It is not this embarrassing commotion where the crowd is incited into a frenzy.



I am not saying you do that John, none of your videos I have seen have you done this. But I have seen many videos of street preachers that get crowds upset, often the police are called. I don't believe this is what we are to do.



If you read of Paul, often he preached in the street and a commotion ensued, but that was because the Jews stirred the people up, not because Paul was shouting at them the Ten Commandments.



So where did WOTM get this method from?

I never paid for WOTM as both classes were with churches in SC FREE OF CHARGE. I do not street preach in a way that gets the police called. I have been heckled and hassled a few times but not usually as I do not wave up signs or wear shirts targeting people. Also I do not preach nor target individuals but preach against sinners. I do not think preaching the LAW is the only way. Look on YouTube as I have a sermon from 2009 where I did not preach the Law. I was Arminian then.