Ideas on how to love and serve others in church

[evangelist6589]

For example, John has taken two courses on street preaching from WOTM. I imagine he had to pay for those courses.



Where in the Bible are we given instructions on how to street preach? John insists we have to preach the Ten Commandments, where do the scriptures tell us to stand in the street and yell the Ten Commandments at others?



John, I am not trying to insult you here, I think it is great you have a heart for lost folks and preach on the streets. But where did WOTM get these methods you insist must be followed?



I see Jesus sitting down in a boat and making all the people sit down. He used the water to amplify his voice so he wouldn't have to shout. I didn't see him telling folks they were sinners as WOTM teaches.



Mar 4:1 And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.

2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,



This to me is a very decent and orderly service, not unlike church service itself. It is not this embarrassing commotion where the crowd is incited into a frenzy.



I am not saying you do that John, none of your videos I have seen have you done this. But I have seen many videos of street preachers that get crowds upset, often the police are called. I don't believe this is what we are to do.



If you read of Paul, often he preached in the street and a commotion ensued, but that was because the Jews stirred the people up, not because Paul was shouting at them the Ten Commandments.



So where did WOTM get this method from?

Did Jesus condemn John the Baptist? Nope.

 

[ShagNappy]

My wife loves the house and we live in a good area.

There you go again... not being a man and pointing the finger of blame at your wife. Yet you still fail to understand where the problem lies!

 

[ShagNappy]

Did Jesus condemn John the Baptist? Nope.

John the Baptist didn't use his debt as an excuse and blame his problems on his wife. He lived in the desert and ate bugs.

 

[Winman]

Did Jesus condemn John the Baptist? Nope.

Nope, but show me where John the Baptist yelled the Ten Commandments at people. He told people to believe on the one who should come after him, Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Look what happened here. Paul told the people what John the Baptist preached, that they should believe on Jesus. Not one word about the Ten Commandments. No shouting either that I can tell.

And what happened? Everybody was baptized in the name of Jesus!

 

[evangelist6589]

Satan is at work here. But not to worry as the gospel is far beyond me and my problems. How many of you attend churches that are in debt? How many of you are in debt with a mortgage, medical, or car loans? I am willing to bet 99% of the posters on this board. Good thing for me I read The Way of the Master minute everyday, you should too.

http://www.wayofthemasterminute.com

 

[Inspector Javert]

Satan is at work here.

Still being the martyr....

 

[annsni]

Satan is at work here. But not to worry as the gospel is far beyond me and my problems. How many of you attend churches that are in debt? How many of you are in debt with a mortgage, medical, or car loans? I am willing to bet 99% of the posters on this board. Good thing for me I read The Way of the Master minute everyday, you should too.

http://www.wayofthemasterminute.com

Our church has no debt at all even though we went through an expansion of our building facility (cost over a million), we had a $250,000 renovation on a historic church that we did not plan on and we are currently in the process of renting a warehouse and are ready to renovate if we get the building permits - and we are doing it with cash in the bank. We don't do any work unless we have the cash to do so.

Personally, we just put some money on our home equity line of credit because it was a fast way to get the cash but we are shuffling around other cash we have to pay it off so while technically we have debt, it is very temporary and we will have it paid off in a week or two.

So at least one family and one church is debt free here.

Additionally, there is a difference between getting into debt and working hard to get that debt down and just saying "Oh well, I can't pay it off." When we had debt, we worked extra hours, sold what we could and cut back on living expenses until we could get it paid off.

And what does Way of the Master have to do with debt? Is he teaching you that debt is OK and to not worry about it? If so, he is in error.

 

[annsni]

Denver metro is very expensive rent being more than 1G a month. I make 14/hr at 40 hours and so a pt job 10-14/hr @ 12-20 hours a week won't do much to student loans of 60G. As Dave Ramsey has told numerous callers in my boat I need a better income. So if a part time job taught me new job skills or new experience leading to a better salary I would take it. So I will keep my eye out for such jobs.

A part time job at $12 an hour (let's say you clear $10 an hour) at 15 hours a week will get you $150 a week. That's $600 a month that could go towards paying down the loans you PROMISED to repay. $600 a month is $7200 a year. You would have your loans paid off in just over 8 years if you worked diligently on it and you can pay it off even sooner if your income increases. I think that's doable!

 

[annsni]

It also may depend on the level of debt. These people you speak of how much debt did they have?? Desire is one factor but believe me I have heard plenty of callers on the Ramsey show have lots of desire but they lacked the job skills or got a non marketable degree or they failed the bar exam and had. 100G in student loans and we're not lawyers!

Imagine that. 100G and you failed the bar exam. One caller had all the desire but Dave had no solution for him.

Anyone who takes $100,000 in student loans is a fool. My daughter will be graduating from grad school with a doctorate in audiology with under $30,000 in debt, have 100% placement when she gets out with a starting salary of $75,000. How did she do this? Go to less expensive schools, work two jobs while attending school and being diligent and frugal with her money. She told her sister last week that she couldn't go to the movies ($15) because she had no money. She has over $4000 in the bank but some of that is earmarked to pay off a credit card balance she had (she paid her first month's rent and security deposit on her first apartment which was $2020 and she had her tuition from her last semester at school on there as well for $587 plus a few smaller things like gas). She pays her own car insurance and all car expenses as well as clothing and entertainment yet as a student with two part time jobs, she was able to have the cash for those expenses because she's careful with her money. Now she will have rent on her new apartment (one bedroom in a three bedroom apartment with two roommates in East Harlem, NY) of $1010 a month plus utilities. And I have no doubt that she just might be able to make that money - while getting a doctorate and working diligently part time.

As for people paying off their debts, here are a few who have paid off large debts:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-we-paid-off--440-500-in-debt-192100598.html

 

[padredurand]

When a person borrows money they contract to repay the debt. The lender allows you to use their money for a period of time trusting the borrower to be honorable and uphold their part of the contract by repaying the debt. Nobody is ever forced into debt. Borrowing somebody else's money requires a deliberate decision on the part of the borrower. It also requires integrity to keep the promises you make.

To do anything less is dishonest if not outright stealing. What does that do to the testimony of a Christian person? What is your testimony to the bill collectors, bankers, landlords and utility companies?

There is a big difference between can't pay my debts and won't pay them.

 

[evangelist6589]

Anyone who takes $100,000 in student loans is a fool. My daughter will be graduating from grad school with a doctorate in audiology with under $30,000 in debt, have 100% placement when she gets out with a starting salary of $75,000. How did she do this? Go to less expensive schools, work two jobs while attending school and being diligent and frugal with her money. She told her sister last week that she couldn't go to the movies ($15) because she had no money. She has over $4000 in the bank but some of that is earmarked to pay off a credit card balance she had (she paid her first month's rent and security deposit on her first apartment which was $2020 and she had her tuition from her last semester at school on there as well for $587 plus a few smaller things like gas). She pays her own car insurance and all car expenses as well as clothing and entertainment yet as a student with two part time jobs, she was able to have the cash for those expenses because she's careful with her money. Now she will have rent on her new apartment (one bedroom in a three bedroom apartment with two roommates in East Harlem, NY) of $1010 a month plus utilities. And I have no doubt that she just might be able to make that money - while getting a doctorate and working diligently part time.

As for people paying off their debts, here are a few who have paid off large debts:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-we-paid-off--440-500-in-debt-192100598.html

This was not the question. The question was how would someone with 100K in student loans debts pay them off? Or perhaps even 40-60K? I have heard callers whom failed to get their degree and or failed to get a job in their industry, but had lots of debt and a little income. How would they pay off their debts if say a student failed his last year of med school or lawyer school?

 

[evangelist6589]

When a person borrows money they contract to repay the debt. The lender allows you to use their money for a period of time trusting the borrower to be honorable and uphold their part of the contract by repaying the debt. Nobody is ever forced into debt. Borrowing somebody else's money requires a deliberate decision on the part of the borrower. It also requires integrity to keep the promises you make.

To do anything less is dishonest if not outright stealing. What does that do to the testimony of a Christian person? What is your testimony to the bill collectors, bankers, landlords and utility companies?

There is a big difference between can't pay my debts and won't pay them.

No one but you ever said I was not paying off my debts. Don't put words into my mouth.

 

[evangelist6589]

Anyone who takes $100,000 in student loans is a fool. My daughter will be graduating from grad school with a doctorate in audiology with under $30,000 in debt, have 100% placement when she gets out with a starting salary of $75,000. How did she do this? Go to less expensive schools, work two jobs while attending school and being diligent and frugal with her money. She told her sister last week that she couldn't go to the movies ($15) because she had no money. She has over $4000 in the bank but some of that is earmarked to pay off a credit card balance she had (she paid her first month's rent and security deposit on her first apartment which was $2020 and she had her tuition from her last semester at school on there as well for $587 plus a few smaller things like gas). She pays her own car insurance and all car expenses as well as clothing and entertainment yet as a student with two part time jobs, she was able to have the cash for those expenses because she's careful with her money. Now she will have rent on her new apartment (one bedroom in a three bedroom apartment with two roommates in East Harlem, NY) of $1010 a month plus utilities. And I have no doubt that she just might be able to make that money - while getting a doctorate and working diligently part time.

As for people paying off their debts, here are a few who have paid off large debts:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-we-paid-off--440-500-in-debt-192100598.html

Interesting lots of stories but of the two I read not a single mention of their income. I have heard many callers on the Ramsey show say they were debt free but all with high incomes. I have yet to hear a caller scream he/she was debt free on a little income like mine. I have heard many call with my debt to income ratio and every time he tells them to find a better paying job.

But I know you won't hear this as your intent is to criticize me, but I plan to search for a second job this weekend.

 

[annsni]

Interesting lots of stories but of the two I read not a single mention of their income. I have heard many callers on the Ramsey show say they were debt free but all with high incomes. I have yet to hear a caller scream he/she was debt free on a little income like mine. I have heard many call with my debt to income ratio and every time he tells them to find a better paying job.

But I know you won't hear this as your intent is to criticize me, but I plan to search for a second job this weekend.

Does this work for you?

http://www.youneedabudget.com/blog/...debt-in-18-months-on-a-35000-per-year-income/

Yes, you need more income. Get off your rear and get a second and third job if necessary. Your wife should as well. Now is the time to buckle down and pay down those commitments you have made. A higher paying job is nice but not everyone can get one so you make due with working more. Is it hard? Absolutely but life is hard. All my life my father had 2 jobs even though he was a New York City cop. It was just what he had to do to make ends meet.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

There you go again... not being a man and pointing the finger of blame at your wife. Yet you still fail to understand where the problem lies!

Thanks for the follow-up on that, Shag. I give up. He only dealt with two points out of seven I gave him on that post. He doesn't want to pay off the debt, but he sure does like to complain.

All we can do is pray for him. I'd suggest we all stop replying. He has no real interest in what we have to say.

He's like the world -- "do what I want when I want, and want what I want when I want."

Terrible witness.

 

[ShagNappy]

Thanks for the follow-up on that, Shag. I give up. He only dealt with two points out of seven I gave him on that post. He doesn't want to pay off the debt, but he sure does like to complain.

All we can do is pray for him. I'd suggest we all stop replying. He has no real interest in what we have to say.

He's like the world -- "do what I want when I want, and want what I want when I want."

Terrible witness.

:thumbs: ...