“Sinning Willfully”

[The Biblicist]

There's no such thing as a sinful nature inside of a born again person. Our sinful nature is EXACTLY our physical body. The outer man., this body of death.

If both of you believe this, then no wonder your off base in your interpretations.

The flesh is not the sinful nature but rather as Paul explicitly carefully states "the law of sin" dwells in the flesh.

but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,)
The material flesh is not sin, but it is the sphere of where the "law of sin" works and dwells.

The "law of sin" is put in direct contrast with another "law" operating in his mind (inward man)

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of his mind was the law of God that his "inward man" delighted in, that his will was inclined to obey (v. 18). The "law of sin" is no more his flesh, then the law of God is his mind. Rather, both mind and flesh are ruled by different principles. However, his mind, is inclined to the law of God, as his flesh is inclined to the law of sin, his mind does not have POWER to over rule the law of sin in his flesh.

 

[NetChaplain]

If both of you believe this, then no wonder your off base in your interpretations.

The flesh is not the sinful nature but rather as Paul explicitly carefully states "the law of sin" dwells in the flesh.

but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,)
The material flesh is not sin, but it is the sphere of where the "law of sin" works and dwells.

The "law of sin" is put in direct contrast with another "law" operating in his mind (inward man)

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of his mind was the law of God that his "inward man" delighted in, that his will was inclined to obey (v. 18). The "law of sin" is no more his flesh, then the law of God is his mind. Rather, both mind and flesh are ruled by different principles. However, his mind, is inclined to the law of God, as his flesh is inclined to the law of sin, his mind does not have POWER to over rule the law of sin in his flesh.

"So then with the mind I (new nature) myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh (sinful nature) the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

 

[The Biblicist]

"So then with the mind I (new nature) myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh (sinful nature) the law of sin" (Rom 7:25).

No, that is not what he said. He distinguished between "my flesh....this body....my members" and the law of sin, just as he distinguished between the "inward man" and the law of God. He further said that the law of sin was "IN" my flesh rather than IT IS my flesh as you just stated.

You are teaching gnosticism which attributed evil to the material flesh.

 

[NetChaplain]

No, that is not what he said. He distinguished between "my flesh....this body....my members"

The words "flesh, body and members in this passage are all the same.

Flesh here is the fourth definition in the Greek dictionary:
http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4561&t=KJV

Body here is in reference to the "body of sin" (Rom 6:6), with its "members" (Col 3:4). The physical body is never related to being sinful (it's a thing and "all things are pure" - Rom 14:20 - because they have no soul, i.e. pencil, rock, etc. it's the spirit which has the soul), only the spirit and human nature are sinful.

 

[The Biblicist]

The words "flesh, body and members in this passage are all the same.

You have misunderstood my words. Notice that quotation marks enclose all these terms as one unit, as I am treating them as equals. It is this entire enclosed quotation that is being contrasted to "the law of sin" which is "IN" but not equal to what is enclosed in parenthesis. Thus as you claim in your next sentence, the material body is not equal to "law of sin" just as the "inward man......mind" is not equal to "the law of God."

The physical body is never related to being sinful (it's a thing and "all things are pure" - Rom 14:20 - because they have no soul, i.e. pencil, rock, etc. it's the spirit which has the soul), only the spirit and human nature are sinful.

My point exactly!

 

[NetChaplain]

You have misunderstood my words. Notice that quotation marks enclose all these terms as one unit, as I am treating them as equals. It is this entire enclosed quotation that is being contrasted to "the law of sin" which is "IN" but not equal to what is enclosed in parenthesis. Thus as you claim in your next sentence, the material body is not equal to "law of sin" just as the "inward man......mind" is not equal to "the law of God."

I thought that's what you meant by "He distinguished between "my flesh....this body....my members," making them separate.

 

[The Biblicist]

I thought that's what you meant by "He distinguished between "my flesh....this body....my members," making them separate.

Yep, I sort of thought that is how you took it by your response. But nope, that is not what I meant as the parenthetical descriptions were as a whole contrasted to "the law of sin" rather than to each other.

 

[NetChaplain]

Yep, I sort of thought that is how you took it by your response. But nope, that is not what I meant as the parenthetical descriptions were as a whole contrasted to "the law of sin" rather than to each other.

Got it and thanks!

God Be Blessed