I left off addressing your points on legalism. Let me move further down your comments in your OP.
JamesL said:
I'm not certain what you mean by Eternal Salvation. I've had a couple of exchanges with that phrase used, and it seems to refer to God's foreknowledge, election, etc in contrast to Gospel Salvation being the preaching, regeneration, etc. (I could be wrong there though). That's why I was very careful to use the word Destination instead of Salvation
Destination? Well, that addresses
where we will spend eternity, but not the
how (as in how it was made possible for us to receive such a blessing).
JamesL said:
To the Calvinist, saved means "saved from hell, going to heaven" (in a nutshell).
You are presenting salvation has some sort of retail transaction. "Saved" for the Calvinist is much more than the disposition of our eternal destiny. The last of the Five Solas of the Reformation is Soli Deo Gloria = Glory to God Alone. As Christians we're not be so heavenly minded that we become no earthly good.
Col. 3:1, 2 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set you mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
To the Calvinist "saved" means kingdom living now. It means letting our light shine before men, so that they may see our good works and glorify God (Mat. 5:14). It is about taking down strongholds, destroying godless speculations, and anything that rises up against the knowledge of God, by faith in God and the power of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 10).
That's more than can fill a nutshell.
JamesL said:
All that said, the Calvinist believes there is one criteria by which a man will enter through the Pearly Gates - a life of good works. Such an elaborate doctrinal system to have such a simple bottom line.
You have a way of complicating the obvious and trivializing the momentous. And yes - I will say it - you are arrogant and obtuse. With one quip you push aside men who are your betters (and mine also); basically accusing them of doing what you're doing - complicating the obvious.
I addressed your good works fallacy in my previous post:
Reformed said:
As a Calvinist I will flatly reject your characterization of what determines our eternal destination. Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8). We are justified by faith, not works (Rom. 5:1). Even though we believe that good works are evidence of salvation (Eph. 2:10), they are not a criteria for determining salvation. Yes. If a professed believer is living in open, unrepentant sin, we would be greatly concerned about the veracity of his profession, but the final arbiter on his eternal destiny is God.
You haven't brought James 2:14-18 up for discussion yet, but I'm certain you will. In fact, you should. I know I would. On first glance it seems to support your claim that both Arminians and Calvinists arrive at the same place but through different arguments. Let's get into that, shall we?
James' dynamic between faith and works raises a great question. What is saving faith? R.C. Sproul and Sam Waldron both make the point that saving faith is not a static faith; saving faith is active, or as Sproul refers to it as "visible". This brings us back to Eph. 2:10 which tells us that God created us for the purpose of good works. Since that is the purpose for which we were created, the absence of good works calls into question our profession. But as I pointed in my last post, we may not be accurate in evaluating good works. In the end the arbiter is God.
So, back to the question at hand. Is there a difference between Arminians and Calvinists? Oh, yes. A wide swath of modern Arminians are Antinomian. Think easy-believism. Think of Charles Finney, Billy Sunday, and Billy Graham. Think of the first Bible College I attended in Schroon Lake, NY. Once a person raised that hand, or prayed that prayer, they were saved. It didn't matter what they did, they were saved. Why? Because the Antinomian view these evangelists and organizations promulgated was a faith that was completed detached from any evidence-providing good works. So, no, these Arminians would not arrive at the same place as Calvinists.
I wish that the previous paragraph represented a small cross section of Baptist churches. Alas, that is not the case. This Antinomian view is alive and well in many Baptist churches today.
The Free-Will (or full Arminian) Baptists certainly do teach that a professed Christian must do good works in order to remain saved. But their view of good works is based on a heretical soteriology. They believe a person can fall from grace and lose their salvation. To them good works are not evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their lives. After all, if good works truly were the fruit of the Spirit, how could the Spirit ever stop doing those works and abandon the believer?
So, I have shown you that Antinomian Arminians, of which there are many in Baptist circles, do not arrive at the same place as Calvinistic Baptists. But James, let not your heart be troubled. You are not without hope. It comes in the form of a happy inconsistency among Arminian Baptists. Many Arminian Baptists are woefully ignorant of their Arminian and Semi-Pelagian roots. So, on the one hand they deny original sin, deny that sinners are completely fallen, and affirm that salvation is a cooperative work between God and man. Yet some of them believe in Lordship Salvation and the progressive sanctification of the believer. Talk about inconsistency!
Your egalitarian, ends-justify-the-means soteriology, is rooted in Antinomianism. You lump everyone together and infer, “We’re all making it, so who really cares about doctrine?” You totally dismiss the fact that we serve a holy God, who has expressly told us how He wants to be served and worshiped.
I’m reminded of the closing paragraph of John Bunyan’s classic allegory, Pilgrim’s Progress:
Pilgrim's Progress said:
Now, while I was gazing upon all these things, I turned my head to look back, and saw Ignorance come up to the river side; but he soon got over, and that without half the difficulty which the other two men met with. For it happened that there was then in that place one Vain-Hope, a ferryman, that with his boat helped him over; so he, as the other I saw, did ascend the hill, to come up to the gate; only he came alone, neither did any man meet him with the least encouragement. When he was come up to the gate, he looked up to the writing that was above, and then began to knock, supposing that entrance should have been quickly administered to him; but he was asked by the men that looked over the top of the gate, Whence come you? and what would you have? He answered, I have ate and drank in the presence of the King, and he has taught in our streets. Then they asked him for his certificate, that they might go in and show it to the King: so he fumbled in his bosom for one, and found none. Then said they, Have you none? but the man answered never a word. So they told the King, but he would not come down to see him, but commanded the two shining ones, that conducted Christian and Hopeful to the city, to go out and take Ignorance, and bind him hand and foot, and have him away. Then they took him up, and carried him through the air to the door that I saw in the side of the hill, and put him in there. Then I saw that there was a way to hell, even from the gate of heaven, as well as from the City of Destruction.
Ignorance arrived at the same place as Christian. He died and stood before His Judge. But unlike Christian, the premise of his faith was flawed from the beginning. It’s not that he maintained his profession until the end, which was evidenced by good works. He was never saved to begin with. He lived the life of an impostor.
The point is that how we arrive is just as important as arriving. Our lives are not just about the end game. Paul recognized this when he wrote:
Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
