Featured Seventy Weeks Prophecy, no Gap, but a Solid Promise

The mystery of the Church, the Body of Christ was revealed unto Paul.
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now[/B] is made manifest to his saints:

Your insistence on 490 contiguous years brings you to 40 AD. The Temple stood in Jerusalem for an additional 30 years. There is nothing historically significant in 40 AD.

 

There ya go! Start out by attakcing anyone who does not hold your view. See that way people trust ya and want to hear more from you. Good going! :thumbs:

 

You haven't given one good reason yet. It is all opinion. There is no gap (you say) because it doesn't make sense to you. So what. That excuse doesn't fly. No one will accept it. Opinions don't count in debate. We will accept your opinion "I don't like it."

Scripture is interpreted by scripture, not by history and not by unbelieving Jews.

This doesn't make your case. Again, trying to prove a false interpretation (yours) via unsaved Jews, is sure to fail.

Correct. Then why would you do the same thing? It is still prophetic. You deny the prophetic value of this passage just as "our liberal counterparts" do.

A suffering Messiah came whom they rejected because it was not the Messiah that they were expecting. The Messiah that they were expecting they are still expecting and we are also. He is perfectly described in both OT and NT. The Jews were not deceived by the Scriptures. Christ will come in the glory of his father with the holy angels. This glorious event is still future. Obviously there is still a gap.

There are some things that in the light of other scripture only makes sense.

Because Daniel described one.

Why do you assume the reason is "my preacher says."
That is very demeaning of you. But if we treat you the same way you would be sure to complain.

Nonsense.

Your interpretation is found wanting. You state things not true, but opinion stated as fact. You can't back it up.
For example: "The true temple is the church of God, a spiritual temple."
More nonsense. That type of allegorical interpretation was unknown among the early Christians. It started with Origen. Furthermore, it is not the "church of God" that is the temple in the NT, but the believer himself. Check 1Cor.6:19,20. Even your types are messed up.
But Daniel wrote of an actual physical Temple which would be defiled or desecrated in the midst of a seven year period, by a person who would be called the Antichrist.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
--He (the Antichrist) will confirm the covenant (with Israel) for one week (seven years) and in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...of abomination...make it desolate..."

A paraphrase of the verse:
(CEV) For one week this foreigner will make a firm agreement with many people, and halfway through this week, he will end all sacrifices and offerings. Then the "Horrible Thing" that causes destruction will be put there. And it will stay there until the time God has decided to destroy this one who destroys.

Another translation:
(MKJV) And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and on a corner of the altar desolating abominations, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall be poured on the desolator.

It is obvious that this is still future. This seven year period is still future.
The covenant is still future. The Antichrist is still future. This entire event is still future.

That almost is a denial of scripture. However, you need to put the facts together.

 

You know better than this.

 

Who saw Jesus return in the clouds? What Saints were taken up with Jesus to be there with Him forever more.


There, preterism detroyed in just two little questions. Game over.

 

Again in the first part of your post your reason were opinions and they were not scriptural.
For example, you gave "Biblical examples." So? They weren't exhaustive. You picked and chose some passages of scripture to fit your case. That is not the sum total of scripture.

When Peter quotes Joel 2:28ff what do we find? We find a gap. There was only a partial fulfillment at Pentecost. There is no possible way that any thinking Christian would admit that the Spirit fell on ALL flesh. It didn't. The Spirit did not fall on the very ones that crucified Christ, or the apostle Paul, or the Sanhedrin who were present that day. 100,000 were present that day. 3,000 were saved. That is 3,000 or 3% that got saved. The Holy Spirit, at the most, fell on 3% of those that were there, not ALL flesh.

When will that happen? At a future time. There is a gap in that passage of scripture. The rest of that scripture portrays a gap as well: the signs and wonders in the sky...
[FONT=&quot]Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:[/FONT]
--These things did not happen, nor can be verified in history.
There is a gap. They are yet to happen.

There are many such gaps in prophetic passages throughout the scriptures. You just didn't refer to them.

 

Convenient isn't it?

I don't need a chart. There is a gap by the simple and clear reading of the Scripture.

Yes. It will happen in the Millennial Kingdom.
Yes. The entire nation of Israel will be saved. "So then all Israel shall be saved." That will happen at the second coming. The scripture is very specific here.

Do you think that there was anyone in Judea that had not heard of John?
The entire nation of Israel is a small nation. Just the one province of Judea is quite small compared to the whole nation.

No. I don't know them. They never occurred.

Of course Dan.9:24-27 is one passage.
And Joel 2:28ff is another.

Also:
[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.[/FONT]

1. A child is born; a son is given.
2. gap.
3. The government shall be upon his shoulders--yet to come; the Millennial Kingdom. He does not rule yet. The government is not yet upon his shoulders.
4. Of the increase of his government there shall be no end. (More of the Millennial Kingdom--yet future.)
5. upon the throne of David--a specific throne that will be upon this earth. Another reference to the Millennial Kingdom.
6. "with justice from henceforth even forever."
--From the Millennial Kingdom into eternity future. From one period to another.

There are still plenty more.

 

The Seventh Week

Much of the pre-trib-dispensational doctrine of the ‘end times’ is based on a false interpretation of this vision of the prophet Daniel, particularly Daniel 9:26-27. There are some who refer to the period of time discussed in the entire vision as Israel's ‘prophetic destiny’.

Daniel 9:26,27, KJV
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

From this passage we see that the Messiah, Jesus Christ was ‘cut off’, killed, sometime after the end of the 69th week; actually after His ministry of about three and one half years when he confirmed {cause to prevail} the New Covenant through His sacrificial death. Because of His sacrificial death the Temple sacrifices were no longer necessary, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and the continuation of animal sacrifices in the Temple were an abomination.

There is no basis in the text of the passage to indicate a delay in the start of the seventieth week until some time in the far distant future, 2000 years and counting. We know from Scripture that the Messiah, Jesus, was killed, not for himself, but for the sins of those chosen in Him from the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1: 4]. Thus the Covenant has already been instituted by the shed blood of Jesus the Messiah. Sometime after the death of the Messiah the city and sanctuary were to be destroyed by a people belonging to an unnamed prince. The armies of Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

The call of Abraham and the eventual setting apart of the nation Israel played an indispensable role in the outworking of God’s purpose of salvation, the Covenant of Grace. The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Saints at Rome writes of the role of the Jews in God’s purpose as follows:

Romans 3:1,2, KJV
1. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
2. Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

It was through the nation Israel that God would fulfill the promise given in the Garden of Eden [Genesis 3:15] and bring the Second Person in the Godhead into the world, not in the glory of the Godhead but as a Virgin born baby. Israel’s God given role, her ‘prophetic destiny’, was completed when Jesus Christ, the Incarnate God, completed His work - His sacrificial death and resurrection for the redemption of the elect, both Jew and Gentile, and the creation and empowerment of the Church in its New Testament form. The ultimate fulfillment of God’s promise to Abraham [Genesis 12:1-4] is explained by the Apostle Paul in his letter to the church at Galatia:

Galatians 3:8, KJV
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:16, KJV
16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:26-29, KJV
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus Christ, sometime after His triumphal entry into Jerusalem, clearly indicated the end of the role of the nation Israel in God’s purpose in the salvation of His elect when He said:

Matthew 21:42-44, KJV
42. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

The pre-trib-dispensational doctrine of the ‘end times’ declares that prophetic time for the Jews stopped with the 69th week, that is their ‘prophetic destiny’ is interrupted. For 69 weeks prophetic week follows prophetic week, routinely and logically. Then, according to pre-trib-dispensational theology, God grants a delay, an interruption of indefinite length before Israel is to fulfill her ‘prophetic destiny’. The basis for this delay in the fulfillment of Israel’s ‘prophetic destiny’ is her rejection of the Incarnate God, who came as the Suffering servant, Jesus Christ. God is then forced into a fall back position of the ‘parenthesis’ Church.

Those who hold this position should read very carefully the dialogue of Jesus Christ with two of His disciples on the road to Emmaus [Luke 24:13-32]. Even more significant is the claim that Jesus Christ made in His prayer for the Church before His betrayal, John 17.

John 17:3,4, KJV
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was not a Gospel of an earthly Messianic Kingdom but the spiritual Kingdom of God. There has been only one true Gospel ever preached [Mark 1:1, 14; Luke 4:43; Acts 20:24; Acts 28:31; Romans 1:16], the Gospel preached by Jesus Christ and the Apostles, the Gospel preached to Abraham [Galatians 3:8], the Gospel that the Apostle Paul defends to the church at Galatia [Galatians 1:6-9].

Furthermore, the rejection of Jesus Christ by the Jews is a fulfillment of prophecy [Isaiah 6:9, 10] as explained by Jesus Christ to His disciples [Matthew 13:14, 15] and the Apostle Paul’s denunciation of the Jews at Rome who rejected the Gospel [Acts 28:25-28]. Not all Jews rejected the Gospel of Salvation and these became witnesses to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the nucleus of the New Testament Church, who, though hated and persecuted by the unbelieving Jews, began the spread of the Gospel throughout the world.

As indicated above the pre-trib-dispensationalists believe that prophetic time has stopped for the Jews before the 70th week and will be resumed after an indefinite ‘Church age’ when the Church has been removed from the earth.

Daniel 9:27 is a difficult and controversial passage in this prophecy. Pre-Trib-Dispensationalism believes this verse and part of Daniel 9:26 corresponds to the 70th week and will be fulfilled during the seven year ‘great tribulation’ whenever that occurs. I believe the prophecy related to this verse was fulfilled through the ministry and death of Jesus Christ.

Daniel 9:27, KJV
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It seems obvious that the subject of this passage refers back to the subject of verse 26, the Messiah. Note first that this passage does not say that He shall make a covenant but that He shall confirm a covenant. The word confirm translates the Hebrew word ‘gabar’ and is used 25 times in the Old Testament. It is translated prevail 14 times and confirm once. The passage could read “He shall cause a covenant to prevail”.

Jesus Christ came to die [John 12:27, 1 Corinthians 15:3, Acts 2:23] for the sins of His people and for His Church. By His death and resurrection He fulfilled His part in the Covenant of Grace, made within the Godhead before the foundation of the world. Jesus Christ preached the Kingdom of God and salvation from sin, primarily to the Jewish people, for about three and one half years before He was crucified. The death of Jesus Christ in the midst of the week meant that the sacrifice and the oblation offered in the temple were useless, as indicated by the rending of the veil of the temple from top to bottom opening the way into the Holy of Holies.

We are then told: for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation. I believe that the continuation of useless sacrifices in the temple that God had rejected were considered to be an abomination. The writer of Proverbs tells us:

Proverbs 15:8, KJV
8. The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.

Still the sacrifices persisted until the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. For these abominations Jesus Christ shall make ‘it’, the temple, desolate until the consummation, that is, the end of time.

It is utter nonsense to insert a 2000 year plus gap in Daniel’s 70th week just to support Draby’s-pre-trib-dispensational doctrine.

 

OK, what happened in 40 A.D. to complete the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy?
Most of the New Testament was not complete by 40 A.D., so where is the "chapter and verse" concerning this most important prophecy?

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand ) Mt 24:15
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand, ) Mk 13:14

 

In Matt ch 24-25 and Luke ch 21, Jesus talks about the end of the age, the Glorious Second coming and the fate of the Temple. What he doesn't do is tie the fate of the temple to the Second Coming. It is difficult for some here to grasp what I'm saying but there is simply no connecting the two time wise.

Preterism has several huge problems to explain, one is why did it take almost 20 centuries to discover that the event had already taken place? Another major problem in my mind is why did the NT writers give us so much detail with respect to the actual signs and situation on earth at the time of the second advent when the plan all along would be that the event would be basically unknown by the theologians and historians for many centuries?

Reformed theology in general and preterist in particular like to prove their point by trying to discredit Darby or Scofield or whoever. What they do not seem to get is that their concept of the Kingdom promised by Christ, their "spiritual kingdom" now present in the church, comes from the pens of the Roman church.

It is ironic to me at least that the reformers took the actual words of the Bible over the teachings of Rome with the exception of prophecy. Everything is literal and systematized with this one exception.

When judgement came in the days of Noah, there were signs and warnings and then a spectacular event. When judgement comes at the second advent, we should expect the same. That aspect is lost when it is claimed that we are now in the kingdom. One of the purposes of the second advent is to execute judgement and glorify Christ. It will be an awful time for many people in divers places but they will know what is going on, it will not be hidden. Ask the Egyptians at the time of the Exodus.

For me it comes down to trusting the words of the Bible or the words of the theologians. Problem with the theologians is that they are not inspired, at least I don't believe they are. Others may disagree, as is their right. But if anyone were to pick up their modern (or not so modern) translation of the Bible and actually read it and take to heart the words, they would never conclude that we are post second coming and that believers in Christ are now living in a spiritual kingdom that was promised to the sons of Abraham.

The reformed have had more than 400 years to demonstrate to the rest of us that the Bible teaches a covenant of redemption. I would think that after 400 years and no results it is time to rethink the doctrine or consider giving up the claim of sola scripture.

 

The most obvious gap in scripture is between the first and second coming of Christ. The Old Testament often speaks of both comings in the same text as though no gap occurs between them when it obviously does even if you make the second coming the silly idea that it occurred in A.D. 70. there is a gap of nearly 40 years.

 

Furthermore, Jesus speaks of the Abomination that causes Desolation spoken of by Daniel. If the AD 70 event referred to the second advent, then the Roman's would have set up an image in the Temple of the the emperor, he would have declared himself god and received worship. He would have been performing signs and wonders.

It would make little sense for the Romans to do this and then turn around and destroy the Temple. Of course Jesus, on his return, would have disposed of this individual right in plain sight. None of this happened.

Also, Jesus said when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies (plural), not an army (singular-roman).