Featured Calvinism Vs. Arminianism Vs. Biblicism

when one really comes to grips with just what happened to all of us as a result of the Fall, then we have to accept that sinners just cannot come to God any more as a direct result of their own "free will"

By seeking to have God and man co operating and becoming mutually involved in our salvation, that will appease ther desire to have us part of the salvation process, but not true to the scriptures!

 

Yes I did, and what struck me is that while he tries hard to come to a balance in his mind between two positions, basic problem still the same to face, as man as a sinner cannot wilfully come to God, as our sin natures are in a state of rebellion!

 

Ah, the sin nature myth.

And the choice myth.

 

This statement misrepresents the non cal view.

 

Please expound on why you call both these as myths, please...

 

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

How so?
As the classical non cal viewpoint is thatJjesus died for all sinners, and that God provided the same Grace towards all sinners, so that those saved by God would be on the basis of them deciding freely to accept Jesus and get saved....

 

Ahhh....cause we are void of a sin nature, right James?:saint:

 

Clever.....you used scripture.:smilewinkgrin:

 

How then do you reconcile the scriptural record of God Himself, in the form of the Son, lamenting the unwillingness of the people to turn to God if it is not within their ability to turn to God?

 

I fully confirm the Doctrines of Grace. I believe that in order to share the Gospel it, to be accurate and faithful to biblical teaching, must include the atonement for those chosen before the foundations of the world whose names were written in the Lambs book of Life at the same time.

Also, I have been involved in several "Calvinist-Arminian Debate groups" for more than 5 years. I have yet to see 1 single person convert to the "other side".

It helps one sharpen their argument to use against lesser debaters but has never changed a heart. Only God can open the eyes.

Anyone else know of a convert to the opposite side?

 

Yea....me....Convicted also.

 

Would you mind briefly sharing the circumstances and if one, the particular verses or arguments that you feel swayed you. (Not trying to hijack this thread but your the first I've heard of)

 

There are many....they go both ways in fact. I was a RC (lapsed) and I had been going to various Reformed Churches but nothing ever penitrated. Like any born & raised Catholics I was taught to believe that Christ saves any and all that come to him.....and he does....but that mitigated the cross as merely a good deed by Christ & that it saved nobody. In the recesses of my mind it was inept.

Well if the Death on the Cross was inept then why not question the full validity altogether? I have a atheist woman friend (again raised as a RC) who bluntly told me that the thought of Christs dieing for our sins is just nonsensical & to use her words, "Just BS"

This is the lollypop Christ that is truly a sucker.....didnt die for anyone, that I believe turns people off...doesnt make sense. BUT if he died for those who were given to Him by the Father......oh then light dawns.

Scripture....ah simple. Our Brother OR quoted earlier:

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Now if you really want to throw this OP off kilter, then ask me how I came to the "Old Schoolers" particularly when there are no Old School Churches in my state of New Jersey! LOL Perhaps that's another topic for another time!

 

why is david cloud a false teacher?..lets look.

As long as this is in the bible,those who oppose it can just go home:thumbsup:

There is no if....ALL the Father gives....SHALL COME. Looks very effectual.. all that are given shall come.

It was for a multitude of sinners that God has elected to receive mercy in His Son.....saying a "special few" is a wicked caricature.

It is crystal clear the God's election happened before the world was...again this terminology..."pre- elected"...distorts God's plain declaration of ELECTION.

Only a blind false teacher could miss the clarity here....

The biblical fact of election means...ALL.... do not get saved. His whole evil teaching is based on his rebellion against the truth of God.

The Father has NOT given everyone to Christ. Jesus owns the rights to all men, yet He dies for those given to Him as their surety, that is why they are saved.

the only person who read anything into this are david cloud and others who do not believe the truth.

Does it need to say anymore? All the Father gives.....if you are not given, you are not coming:laugh:

The Sheep
The elect
Those in Covenant with the triune God
Wheat
Sinners saved By Jesus mediatorial work

That is what is revealed in scripture...all 66 books.

No where is this idea taught in scripture at all.

The scripture has explained it already from 37-39....vs 40 announces the results.

John 6:44 -- “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

The statement in it's context explains it completely....to run to another section of scripture like false teachers do, and attempt to have a verse contradict this passage is evil.

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This is wicked twisting and wresting of scripture. David Cloud and his falsehoods are to be rejected.:wavey:

 

jk

Once they are being drawn, they are saved. Being drawn is evidence of the New Birth !