The best defense of the Bible is

[Yeshua1]

Pay no attention to Mr. Rippon who cannot seem to understand that Paul spoke to new Christians as if "men of flesh" because the new Christians could not understand spiritual meat. Note that in his (Calvinist) view of the verse it reads "...does not accept [all] the things that come from the Spirit of God...." Others, based on context, understand the verse to say "... does not accept [some] things [i.e. spiritual meat] that come from the Spirit of God...."

Returning to topic, the best defense of the Bible is to redirect the discussion to what the opponents of the Bible believe about Christ.

Unless/Until the Spirit enables sinners to see and perceive, ALL things spiritual to them would be hitting deaf ears!

 

[Van]

Hi Yeshua1, making unsupported Calvinists assertions over and over seems to be your forte.

The best defense of the Bible is to redirect the discussion to what the opponents of the Bible believe about Christ. Of course to be successful, you would have to have studied "all" that Christ commanded. Paul spoke to new Christians as "men of flesh." Thus men of flesh are not "deaf" to the milk of the gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hi Yeshua1, making unsupported Calvinists assertions over and over seems to be your forte.

The best defense of the Bible is to redirect the discussion to what the opponents of the Bible believe about Christ. Of course to be successful, you would have to have studied "all" that Christ commanded. Paul spoke to new Christians as "men of flesh." Thus men of flesh are not "deaf" to the milk of the gospel.

No, Paul was adressing those who now had the Holy Spirit in them and who should have been spiritual, but instead were acting still Pin the dlesh: and staying babes in Christ!
NONE can really inderstand the Bible apart from the Holy Spirit allowing them to do such!

 

[Rippon]

Pay no attention to Mr. Rippon

You mean "Pay no attention to the apostle Paul."

who cannot seem to understand that Paul spoke to new Christians as if "men of flesh" because the new Christians could not understand spiritual meat.

A person without the Spirit is not a Christian. That person is not a new believer or else Paul would not have said that this person cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God and regards them as foolish.

Note that in his (Calvinist) view of the verse it reads "...does not accept [all] the things that come from the Spirit of God...." Others, based on context, understand the verse to say "... does not accept [some] things [i.e. spiritual meat] that come from the Spirit of God...."

Note how you mangle the Word of God to promote your agenda.

 

[Van]

Folks, just read 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3 and judge for yourself who "mangles" scripture to promote the bogus view of the total spiritual inability of men of flesh.

Speaking to folks "as men of flesh" is speaking to them as if they did not have the Spirit.

Just read it folks.

 

[PreachTony]

Recall that the lost cannot understand spiritual meat, but only the milk of the gospel.

Consider this scripture:

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

When discussing the milk and the meat of the Word, you are talking about sustenance for the believer. Neither is profitable to the spiritual Christian growth of the lost, because they do not comprehend it yet. It is only after salvation that it becomes applicable.

Even then, once someone is saved, you don't immediately hand them the deeper mysteries of the gospel. You don't start them out on hard soteriology or eschatology. Just like a newborn baby cannot eat a steak, but instead requires milk, a newborn believer is the same.

 

[Van]

When discussing the milk and the meat of the Word, you are talking about sustenance for the believer. Neither is profitable to the spiritual Christian growth of the lost, because they do not comprehend it yet. It is only after salvation that it becomes applicable.

Even then, once someone is saved, you don't immediately hand them the deeper mysteries of the gospel. You don't start them out on hard soteriology or eschatology. Just like a newborn baby cannot eat a steak, but instead requires milk, a newborn believer is the same.

Thanks Tony for actually addressing the topic. New Christians cannot understand spiritual meat, but can understand spiritual milk. But Paul says when he presented spiritual milk, he was speaking to them as "men of flesh." Thus "men of flesh" can understand spiritual milk, according to scripture.

I know this directly refutes the mistaken doctrine of total spiritual inability, but so be it. According to this passage (1 Cor. 2:14-3:3) the correct biblical doctrine is "limited spiritual ability" i.e. only able to understand the milk of the gospel.

Your Hebrews passage (Heb. 5:12-14) does help our understanding of the specific content of "milk."

 

[Yeshua1]

Thanks Tony for actually addressing the topic. New Christians cannot understand spiritual meat, but can understand spiritual milk. But Paul says when he presented spiritual milk, he was speaking to them as "men of flesh." Thus "men of flesh" can understand spiritual milk, according to scripture.

I know this directly refutes the mistaken doctrine of total spiritual inability, but so be it. According to this passage (1 Cor. 2:14-3:3) the correct biblical doctrine is "limited spiritual ability" i.e. only able to understand the milk of the gospel.

Your Hebrews passage (Heb. 5:12-14) does help our understanding of the specific content of "milk."

Again, Paul was adressing them as being still babes in Christ, for acting and understanding in a stunted way, NOT stating that all sinners can receive and understand the truths of god, for that would have him contridicting himself!

 

[Van]

Paul did not contradict himself, but speaking to new Christs as "men of flesh" certainly contradicts Calvinism's total spiritual inability mistaken doctrine.

What is spiritual milk? Repentance and Faith? Spiritual and Symbolic Baptism? Resurrection and Judgment? All of the above?

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture Citations are from the NIV

Folks, just read 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3 and judge for yourself who "mangles" scripture to promote the bogus view of the total spiritual inability of men of flesh.

There you go mangling all the way to grandma's house.

1 Corinthians 2:14 is speaking of non-believers --the unsaved. They are without the Spirit of God --the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit one can not grasp spiritual things --such a person will consider spiritual things to be foolishness.

You must be a spiritual infant to miss the obvious. I will give you some Bible basics.

1 Cor. 3:16 : Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives among you?

1 Cor. 6:19 : Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

2 Timothy 1:14 : Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you --guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

Romans 8:9 : You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Romans 8:11 : And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

 

[Van]

More shuck and jive, and change of subject. 1 Cor. 2:14 does not say Paul spoke to new Christians as "men of flesh." Apparently the subject changer neglected to read 1 Corinthians 3:1. The characteristic of "men of flesh" whether new Christians or not is their behavior is like unregenerate people. So in this passage, Paul is telling us unregenerate people can understand spiritual milk.

 

[kyredneck]

The best defense of the Bible is fulfilled prophecy!

Without a doubt!

Agree, with the qualifier that only the regenerate have the capacity to see it. The natural man cannot accept it.

 

[OldRegular]

Agree, with the qualifier that only the regenerate have the capacity to see it. The natural man cannot accept it.

Well said and true to boot!

 

[Van]

In Matthew 13 we read on natural men who received the gospel with joy. Claiming that men of flesh cannot accept spiritual milk is simply unbiblical.

 

[T Alan]

In Matthew 13 we read on natural men who received the gospel with joy. Claiming that men of flesh cannot accept spiritual milk is simply unbiblical.

claiming that "natural men" received the gospel with joy other wise is contradictory to so many text. Which verse in Matt 13 says that anyway?>

 

[Yeshua1]

claiming that "natural men" received the gospel with joy other wise is contradictory to so many text. Which verse in Matt 13 says that anyway?>

The Gospel according to Van version!

 

[Van]

It would appear reading Matthew 13 is too much of a bible study, so lets look at Matthew 13:18-21. If the second soil type had been regenerated, then irresistible grace would have prevented them from falling away. Therefore these men who received the gospel with joy were natural men, men of flesh, unregenerate. Thus unregenerate men of flesh can understand the spiritual milk. Often, they do not fully commit to it, like the example of soil #2, but they can receive it with joy, i.e. some of the time soils type 2,3 and 4 can set their minds on God and His righteousness.

 

[OldRegular]

claiming that "natural men" received the gospel with joy other wise is contradictory to so many text. Which verse in Matt 13 says that anyway?>

That is my question.

 

[Yeshua1]

It would appear reading Matthew 13 is too much of a bible study, so lets look at Matthew 13:18-21. If the second soil type had been regenerated, then irresistible grace would have prevented them from falling away. Therefore these men who received the gospel with joy were natural men, men of flesh, unregenerate. Thus unregenerate men of flesh can understand the spiritual milk. Often, they do not fully commit to it, like the example of soil #2, but they can receive it with joy, i.e. some of the time soils type 2,3 and 4 can set their minds on God and His righteousness.

The ONLY really saved group though were the ones that had 100 fold fruith, that endured unto the end...