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Youth Ministry; Man Created not Biblically Mandated

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by T Alan, Dec 20, 2014.

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  1. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #41 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So what you are suggesting is that whether or not the children will receive the gospel depends entirely on whether or not parents get saved? They cannot ever get saved otherwise. Is that your position?
     
    #42 Revmitchell, Dec 21, 2014
  3. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    Any empty nesters that would be willing to invest in the lives of these young people? Even if you have a youth pastor/workers, they can only do so much. If I was a youth with "absentee" parents it would speak more loudly to me that an older couple in the church took a vested interest in me rather than just appropriating more funds for the "cause".
     
    #43 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
  4. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Also, some of the "Youth workers" could try to minister to the parents and youth together. I was actually used as a Youth Pastor for get this 18 mths (the avg lifetime of SBC Youth pastor) and Yes I was against what I was doing, I would have 1 night a month with an event that the kids really wanted to do, the kicker was that at least one of their parents had to join in. I had other "adult" Believers with the task to befriend that parent and try to get them plugged in. It worked out pretty good tilL I got the boot. (deacons were Mason's, hated me, wonder why) lol
     
    #44 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  5. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    You should know better, Preacher. I took you for a much more intelligent person. But, frankly, You mistake a lot of straight forward stuff. You're either stupid or want to fight with me. Maybe both huh?
     
    #45 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    So youth are unreachable unless the parents are believers, and parents can only be reached if God has elected them from eternity past.

    What happened to the Calvinist refrain, "just present the Gospel, God will do the rest?"
     
    #46 InTheLight, Dec 21, 2014
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Well, that sounds all lofty and noble and such, but not very realistic for those children and young people who have no parents who will accept being evangelized.

    So we have to wait until Dad "gets it" for the family to be right? So what is Mom supposed to do until he "gets it"? Not take the kids to church?

    And what if neither Mom nor Dad "get it"? Are we not supposed to find these children and bring them to church and evangelize them?

    I have personally witnessed God changing a Dad's heart THROUGH his [1] children being saved and [2] a year later, his wife being saved. Two years later, he was saved.

    My church practices the evangelistic method of reaching people however you can. If it's through the Dad, so be it. If it's through the Mom, so be it. And if it's through the children, then bring them on.

    Would you like to know how many Dads were in church tonight who - to my knowledge have NEVER been to church? I counted three. We had a Christmas program. The children's choir and youth choir sang. The gospel was presented and a invitation given. One mother whom I have also never seen was under great conviction during the invitation time and the pastor counseled her - about what, I don't know.

    I don't understand those who don't believe that the church should have an impact on children and young people by teaching them where they are in their life.

    Yes, it is primarily the parent's job - so does that mean that the church ignores the children and young people?

    We live in an age where the parents are NOT doing their job.

    And young people are not leaving the church BECAUSE they had a youth ministry, but in SPITE of that fact. A church can tackle the job of instructing children and young people and adults any way that they see the Lord is leading them to.

    Let's don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Yes, there should be corporate worship and teaching for all ages combined and there should also be segregated worship and teaching for reaching ALL people where they are.
     
    #47 Scarlett O., Dec 21, 2014
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Amen, Scarlett O, amen.
     
    #48 InTheLight, Dec 21, 2014
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So let me get this straight. I point out the inconsistency in your position and your only response is to call me stupid. Further more you suggest I want a fight because I asked for clarification on what you said?

    Seems to me the issue is yours and your inability to properly deal with it.
     
    #49 Revmitchell, Dec 21, 2014
  10. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    "unreachable" unless the Parents are believers, .You mis represent me.
    And again, I'm no "Calvinist", I do affirm the Doctrines oF Grace but I not a "Calvinist". The gospel is the power of deliverance unto them being delivered into the Kingdom of God here on earth. I have learned(ing) to be consistent.
     
    #50 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    :thumbs::thumbs: These areas are where statistics often fail. We are called to reach people where they are in life and to be faithful to God wherever we are in our life. Often life does not conform to statistical data.
     
    #51 JonC, Dec 21, 2014
  12. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    YOU MIS REPRESENTED MY POSITION then posed a statement you know I don't hold to in reference to that position. When using the [/quote] feature you need to get the entire post to get the context. It does seem.
     
    #52 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  13. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    I'd like to take this opportunity to Thank each of the participants for coming here to "YOUTH FORUM" to respond in this thread. SaggyWoman hasn't been able to use her "Admin" skills here much in some time. Give her a round or at least a 1/2 round of applause for her time.:applause::applause:
     
    #53 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    First the rest of that post did not change the context of the part I quoted. Second, did you see the question mark at the end of my sentence? That question mark means I was looking for clarification of your position by asking a question. Question marks means a question has been asked it does not mean a statement was made. It is basic grammar.


    Either way it is inconsistent to hold to basic calvinist theology with regards to who gets the credit for salvation and then suggest that youth cannot be reached unless the entire family including parents are reached.
     
    #54 Revmitchell, Dec 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2014
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, so what happened to the T Alan refrain, "just present the Gospel, God will do the rest?"
     
    #55 InTheLight, Dec 21, 2014
  16. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    I'll be sitting over here on the Sofa admiring myself in the mirror; I've never said anything "lofty" and "Noble" before. Y'all excuse me for a bit okay. But evangelize (preach the gospel) them anyway, Trust God for the rest.
     
    #56 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Interesting that OP contends that youth ministry is a man created evangelistic technique but going door to door ringing doorbells is an acceptable (apparently Biblical) technique.

    Really am amazed at the number of posts on this board criticizing particular evangelistic outreach techniques. It ought to be the last thing that we take an issue with other believers.
     
    #57 InTheLight, Dec 21, 2014
  18. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    I understand what your saying here JonC, but we can't ignore the stats totally.

    If I have 50 cows and only 25 of them have calves every year something is wrong. It doesn't make sense to continue operating that way, when my return should be so much higher. There's something fundamentally wrong in my operation, is it the bull? are some of my cows past their prime? something amiss in my nutritional program?

    Here are some more stats: The average age according to the NAMB of a SBC worshiper is 49. The average age for the US of a male is 35.5 and the average age for a female is 38.1. Point being, our churches are not representative of the overall demographics for the nation. Therefore, there is something fundamentally wrong.

    We have things topsy turvy in the modern church. If you look at the pyramids they have withstood the test of time because they have a broad base, as designed. It would crumble if turned upside down. God designed the home to be the primary place of teaching for youth. (Deut 6:6-8)

    I think we make a mistake when we focus too much on youth, we throw more and more money, new programs, and other resources at the kiddos but the stats show that few of them remain into their 20's and 30's. Yet some of you all want to ignore the problem and castigate posters like T Alan who dares to ask a question about the effectiveness of youth ministry.
     
    #58 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
  19. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    From Bro. Paul Washer's Ten Indictments Sermon

     
    #59 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think that you are right, statistics may help us see trends and prepare accordingly. But they are not, IMHO, marks to dictate how we do church. Perhaps statistically children will not become Christians without the influence of the parents. Yet we know in practice this is often the case and the parents are reached through their children who were reached with the gospel through a youth/children's program or by a youth/children's minister.

    I understand your illustration (and I agree). Here's mine: Statistically, I would have never joined the military. Having joined the military, statistically I would have left prior to reaching my 10 year mark. Yet I find that I am far from alone as a military retiree. I’m just saying we need to be cautious when it comes to implementing practices based on statistical data, that’s all.

    I am also not a big fan of programs in general, but what I see in my home church is a very effective youth ministry. In my last church, not so much. We don’t, IMHO, evaluate what we are doing effectively. We don’t always hit the target when it comes to reaching out to a generation that thinks differently, and sometimes we mistakenly compromise the message with our zeal to reach them. But there is something that we should always do. Evaluate and reevaluate. That and refrain from being highly critical of methods other churches may use.
     
    #60 JonC, Dec 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2014
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