Why the disappearance of theology from the church?

[JonC]

Just started reading this book NO PLACE FOR TRUTH (Rippon I have had this book since 2006) and in the intro the author has been making a case on the disappearance of theology. He argues that theology is primarily meant to nurture the people of God, and not for unbelievers which I agree. One can tell that theology is vanishing given the little interest that so few christians have in deep Bible study and reading good books. Fiction, self-help, and bonehead type books dominate the reading interests of many, and churches seem to dive so shallow into theology. My own church for example keeps everything mostly application oriented which is good to one degree, but to another not everything in the Bible is application based. So what do you say of all this?

My 2 cents:

1. One of my favorite books (just below "God in the Wasteland"). It had a significant impact within evangelical Christianity.
2. I don't think Wells was speaking of a disappearance of theology per se, but a more of shift to a less defined and more subjective form of Christianity (which he links to postmodernity).
3. Many churches are light in doctrine. Many are not. As a whole, I think that there is a decline.

 

[JamesL]

My 2 cents:

1. One of my favorite books (just below "God in the Wasteland"). It had a significant impact within evangelical Christianity.
2. I don't think Wells was speaking of a disappearance of theology per se, but a more of shift to a less defined and more subjective form of Christianity (which he links to postmodernity).
3. Many churches are light in doctrine. Many are not. As a whole, I think that there is a decline.

I haven't read the book, but if your point #2 is his take, I would agree.

Objectivity is almost gone from what I see. Less defined is the way peopke want to think. It's more comfortable than being challenged with objective truth.

I see it in the bible study I lead at church. I regularly ask - is it objective or subjective? And it makes their brains hurt sometimes. Someone told me "we've never had to think like this before"

 

[JamesL]

The big difference I've found is when the flame hits the pan...

I definitely agree that a changed life doesn't always mean a person is saved. And I think there can be those who are saved and yet don't show a changed life just yet. But God is working on them and soon we would see something change. The change comes from the new heart. It's an amazing thing to see.

I think you and I are on the same page. And your story about the man who lost his family? That's what I would call a change from the inside.

Good post, and thanks

 

[evangelist6589]

My 2 cents:

1. One of my favorite books (just below "God in the Wasteland"). It had a significant impact within evangelical Christianity.
2. I don't think Wells was speaking of a disappearance of theology per se, but a more of shift to a less defined and more subjective form of Christianity (which he links to postmodernity).
3. Many churches are light in doctrine. Many are not. As a whole, I think that there is a decline.

I am still reading it so thanks for the info.

 

[Yeshua1]

Theology and doctrine are only good if you have a real relationship with Jesus. If we focus only on doctrines, the spirit life will lack. It is not enough to know about Jesus, we need to know Jesus on a personal level. The prayer closet is where it starts and should continue.

Do we also need to have the second blessing of grace then, the so called baptism in the Holy Ghost in order to receive and walk in those "deeper things?"

 

[Revmitchell]

If you watch late-night infomercials, you can find all sorts of "life changing" stuff for sale pretty cheap.

Why study scripture if a $200 fruit juicer can change your life?

Real estate investing can change your life with a $1,000 kit, so I've heard.

A $120 vacuum cleaner can change your life.

Hair implants, coffee makers, slim shaper full-body girdles, George Foreman grill, phone chatting, psychic reading, and so on and so on

Every late night infomercial has the same promise - It'll change your life. And all the testimonials say - It changed my life.


Christians need to STOP selling cheap infomercial Christianity. Scripture NEVER promises a "changed life".

That thief on the cross next to Jesus didn't get a changed life. He still died that day. But he had a changed destination. A changed hope of eternity.

Scripture not only promises a changed life it demands it.

Mat_10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Yeshua1]

My 2 cents:

1. One of my favorite books (just below "God in the Wasteland"). It had a significant impact within evangelical Christianity.
2. I don't think Wells was speaking of a disappearance of theology per se, but a more of shift to a less defined and more subjective form of Christianity (which he links to postmodernity).
3. Many churches are light in doctrine. Many are not. As a whole, I think that there is a decline.

Would say that present day Christianity has a big amount of theology, some very good, others terrible, but that the big lack id discernment within the church as to what is good doctrine/theology, and even more so in getting it applied in a real practical sense!

 

[JonC]

Would say that present day Christianity has a big amount of theology, some very good, others terrible, but that the big lack id discernment within the church as to what is good doctrine/theology, and even more so in getting it applied in a real practical sense!

I think that the American Christianity as a whole prefers anthropology over theology.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think that the American Christianity as a whole prefers anthropology over theology.

And "feel good theology" over real ones!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And "feel good theology" over real ones!

And what does that tell ya brother? perhaps it reveals that most folks are self absorbed....everything has to revolve around them....and ya find allot of that don't you? :BangHead:

 

[blackbird]

Application is theolgy.

I've studied Expository Preaching under one of the world's greatest expository preachers---the late, great Dr. Stephen Olford

He taught his students-----to preach sound doctrine/theology----but to always remember to "bring it on home" to the listeners

He taught his students to-----preach even the "begats"----and taught his students how to make application to even those named in those scriptural begats!!!

Right now I am teaching early College age students----mixed male/female-----we looked this past week at the life of Samson and made application to today's spirit world being careful to remind the students that they are NOT bodies that house a spirit---but they are spirits that so happen to be housed in a body!!

That none of us will probably ever never ever have the capability to rip the gates of Gaza off its hinges and carry the gates up the hill to "Tim-buck-two"-----BUT we are charged with advancing the kingdom of God and to approach the gates of Hell and find Jesus' word to be faithful when He said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against He and His church!!

Application is there in all scripture----one merely has to be a good "Bird Dog" to hunt for it!!!!:smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

 

[Getting it Right]

Do we also need to have the second blessing of grace then, the so called baptism in the Holy Ghost in order to receive and walk in those "deeper things?"

No.

:type:

 

[Yeshua1]

No.

:type:

Does such a thing even exist for us to receive today then?

 

[gigabyte71]

Could it be that too many people focus on books rather than scripture? I have heard lots of people tell me to look at such and such a book, how it will change your life. I am not against books, I am against books being the focus of our study.

Think about all the books out there that will tell you how to make your church grow and how to win people to Jesus. The Bible is pretty clear on both of those subjects and many of the books out there about those subjects don't really use the scriptural method for doing either. Seems like the current thoughts on both subjects is activities. Then we don't want to offend these new members, so we don't really teach any solid Biblical doctrines.

 

[Getting it Right]

Does such a thing even exist for us to receive today then?

There is One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. There is no "second and subsequent" event or requirement.

:jesus:

 

[JamesL]

There is One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. There is no "second and subsequent" event or requirement.

:jesus:

One baptism....

Do you subscribe to the Landmark Baptist view that water baptism is the only baptism?

Or the hyper-Dispensationalist view that Spirit baptism is the only baptism?

Or the baptismal regeneration view that we are regenerated and receive the Spirit at water baptism?

Or is there a context in which Paul wrote that?

I'm not espousing a view, just asking

 

[Getting it Right]

One baptism....

Do you subscribe to the Landmark Baptist view that water baptism is the only baptism?

Or the hyper-Dispensationalist view that Spirit baptism is the only baptism?

Or the baptismal regeneration view that we are regenerated and receive the Spirit at water baptism?

Or is there a context in which Paul wrote that?

I'm not espousing a view, just asking

I have problems with the word "subscribe." Scripture proclaims that there is One God and Father of us all. I am convicted by "us all" in scripture, which is every Believer (Romans 10:8-13).

I reject "points of view" with regard to interpretation and application of God's Word. There is only ONE interpretation / application, 1 Corinthians 2:14-16. The "mind" of Christ, in context, is the Spiritual Nature of God, the Creator. We have access to His Spiritual Nature via the Holy Spirit within, with Jesus ever interceding.

Scripture precludes water baptism as essential to salvation before or after confessing Romans 10:8-13..

Scripture precludes Spiritual Baptism as a 2nd and subsequent event once one has received Jesus as Savior, in accordance with Romans 10:8-13. The reception of Grace thru Faith includes the reception of the indwelling Holy Spirit. He cannot be separated from the instantaneous event of salvation.

There is no water baptismal regeneration.

If one who confesses or is about to confess or has confessed Romans 10:8-13 wants to be dunked in water, then go for it. There is nothing salvatory about it. It is not a necessary event.

:jesus:

 

[Yeshua1]

There is One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. There is no "second and subsequent" event or requirement.

:jesus:

I agree, but was raised up in pentacostal circles before becoming a Baptist, and they tend to see "many Baptisms"

 

[Yeshua1]

One baptism....

Do you subscribe to the Landmark Baptist view that water baptism is the only baptism?

Or the hyper-Dispensationalist view that Spirit baptism is the only baptism?

Or the baptismal regeneration view that we are regenerated and receive the Spirit at water baptism?

Or is there a context in which Paul wrote that?

I'm not espousing a view, just asking

believers water baptism, the Baptist response!

 

[Revmitchell]

Threads on this board remind me of church business meetings. Its like herding cats to keep people on track and topic.


You can be talking about specific spending and someone will mention they spent money on their cat. Then the topic becomes about cats and pets........you get my drift.


So the progression goes something like this:


Church spending>spending on cats>my cat got sick......etc.

So because each change included something the last person said it is believed that we are on topic.


The topic of this thread is the claim that theology is disappearing from the church. It is not about one or many baptisms, it is not about our disagreement with the word subscribe, or the second blessing of grace.