Featured Calvinism/Why God Hates

Your post reminds me of a debate I was involved in about five years ago on divine emotivity (does God have emotions?). I bring this up because hatred is one of the most pronounced human emotions. Hatred can drive people to act in extreme ways. So, beyond the question as to whether God hates is the question "does God have emotions"? I believe that any emotions ascribed to God are anthropomorphic. But you asked specifically about hatred, so...

God's hatred is actually an expression of His holiness. Goes God hate the non-elect? Yes. Why? Because God sees the non-elect as judged already just as He sees the elect as already glorified.

Romans 8:29-30 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (emphasis mine)

The glorification of God's elect is so certain that Paul presents it as already accomplished. This also is an expression of how God views the glorification of His elect, as already done. If Paul can say this about the elect the same can be said for those who perish in their sins (the non-elect). I am not referring to how this plays out in time. While God knows His sheep (and those who are not His sheep) that knowledge has not be made known to us. The gospel is to be faithfully proclaimed until God's flock is complete.

God endures the non-elect for the sake of those elect who have yet to be brought in:

Romans 9:22-23 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

 

You're avoiding the issue. In your statement "There is not one verse where God says he hates any person" you claim something which simply isn't true of the Bible--whether imprecatory or not.

Though it is arguable whether these particular Psalms are part of the body of "Imprecatory Psalms," the statements I've cited are not imprecatory statements. After all, even in the commonly recognized imprecatory pslams, not all statements are imprecatory.

You're simply trying to wiggle out of a clear demonstration of your error in statement and of thinking. Perhaps it can be said of you, "You err because you don't know the Scripture..."

The Archangel

 

The teaching that God hates the non-elect does not come from the Bible; it comes straight from Calvin himself. The Bible teaches of a God that loves everyone--all the world. There is no one that cannot be saved, no one that God will not save if they wanted to be saved, and there was no one Jesus ever rejected while on earth. His invitation "come unto me..." was to all, and no one was ever rejected.
It is still to all. God is a God of love. His very essence is love. Calvin denies this.

The quote above is taken from Dave Hunt's book "What Love is This," and is found on p.192. The quotes that within the quotation marks are direct quotes from Calvin. It was Calvin that taught God hates the non-elect, not the Bible.

 

Your response is non-sequitur. You're avoiding what the text of Scripture has clearly stated and making unfounded claims to do so.

In fact, I've never read all of Calvin. I came to "Calvinism" (which is a very unfortunate word for the related theology) through studying the text of Scripture in the original languages. Well, it was a start, anyway.

I rarely, if ever, read Calvin, not because there isn't any value in it, but because I haven't had the time or the desire to sit down and do so.

The Archangel

 

How could Jesus teach his disciples to love their enemies so they "may be sons of their Father who is in heaven" if their heavenly Father doesn't love those who are at enmity with him?

 

You are trying to teach doctrine from questionable scripture. If you were teaching prayer from a book of prayers that would be different. But to teach "God hates" from "Prayers of Judgment" in the OT, is to butcher scripture.
You should know that.

Then you may not be a true Calvinist. Read the life of Calvin and you may run from it.

It is not edifying.

The question was asked by the previous poster:
If we are commanded:
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Then this makes it obvious that even God loves all--even enemies.
He also said love your neighbors--not just the elect. You don't get to pick your neighbors.
Lift up your eyes and behold the fields ripe unto harvest.
He was speaking of the entire world.

Jesus wept over ALL in Jerusalem, even those who were about to murder him. He wasn't just weeping over the elect.

 

We are to love everyone, even our enemies is correct. What if the disciples sought vengence on Saul of Tarsus and killed him? Even the sheep have been enemies of God prior to salvation. God has ways of preserving His sheep when they have yet been added into the fold.

 

And that we definitely agree on.

 

A hypothethical situation...

Joe does something and kills someone in you family...murdered them. You then take vengence into your hands and kill him. He was one of God's sheep, but died before he was added, thereby, he died lost. That makes void the promise Jesus said in that all the Father gave Him, He lost nothing.

By you loving him...loving in that you leave him in God's hands, ensures that he'll be saved later on.

Saul of Tarsus was a murderer. If the disciples had taken vengence upon him, he would have died lost. But we know that not one of His sheep will die lost...

 

This is an honest question. Are you saying that man can kill off a man before he gets saved, even if he was elect? I don't remember your stance on Calvinism off hand.

 

No. It was a hypothethical situation I posed to prove my point. Sorry about the cornfusion...

 

No problem. I believe I received it the way it was meant, but wanted to clarify.

 

As far as God hates, we were also told to hate our family to follow Jesus. Hate doesn't always mean a literal hatred. It could mean simply not showing as much favor to. God favored Jacob. He didn't Esau. So in contrast, He hated him.

 

That's exactly what I've been saying. When Rom. 9:13 talks about God loving Jacob and hating Esau it was to show the disparity between God's love for Jacob and God's love for Esau.

 

Miseo...greek word translated 'hated' in Romans 9:13...

--to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
--to be hated, detested

 

I don't think anyone would disagree that miseo actually means hate...but I don't think that's what Scripture is trying to display. There are plenty of passages that refer to things being in God's hand but we understand that as anthropomorphic rhetoric and we should understand "hated" in Rom. 9:13 to be euphemistic rhetoric.

 

God's immutable, correct? He changes not, correct? Does Him loving the non-elect then casting them into eternal torment assault His immutability? I ask these in sincerity...

 

No. Just like God is the savior of all but especially the elect, He loves all in a general sense but He especially loves the elect enough to save them from eternal destruction.

 

Fair enough. I am not settled on this btw...leaning that way, though...

 

We are to love our enemies because we don't know who the elect or none elect is for sure. How would you feel if you shunned a certain person or showed hatred toward that person in this life because he is not saved at that time but later on you would meet him in heaven ?