Featured Does regeneration precede faith?

One must be of God to hear Gods words John 8:47 !

 

Eph 2:8 says nothing about the Faith of man! That's a false and invalid statement! Man by nature has no Faith that pleases God Hebrew 11:6 since man in the flesh of nature can't please God Rom 8:8 !

 

We wait for the redemption of our bodies.
Do you have yours already? Are you not also in the flesh? Or has your flesh been redeemed? What kind of special person are you?
Furthermore, I thought you were a Calvinist. Don't Calvinists believe in the Depravity of man? What happened to yours? Even Christians still maintain an Adamic nature after they are saved. Or are you special--entirely sanctified and without sin. You don't have a sin nature any more? Perfect and sinless?

You better read 1John 1:8,10
--That which causes you to sin; I believe we call it "the flesh."
You still have it. It is the flesh (your flesh) that does not please God.
You better do something about it.

 

Rabbit Trail!

 

No it isn't. It is a refutation that you can't answer. Therefore you come up with this ridiculous answer and everyone can see right through you.

 

Yeah it is, you way out in left field! Maybe you need to read my post. Do that and explain my points back to me and then we will discuss or debate the points!

 

Debate works two ways. I refuted your post. Now it is your turn.

 

A few things...

Ephesians 2 says no such thing. In fact, Paul's corpus completely rules out God's grace and salvation itself as a quid pro quo. If a "gift" is given because of something we have or do, it is no longer a gift, but a wage. Paul makes this quite clear.

The very definition of grace is "unmerited favor." You would have us believe that grace is "merited favor."

Further, when Abram was called out of Ur, he was not a Yahweh worshiper; he was an idol worshiper. Why would God approach a faithless idol worshiper who had no faith in Him?

You are incorrect as far as John 3 goes. It's true the word "regenerated" doesn't appear in John 3 and the word for birth--gennao--does. But the word anothen appears after born in John 3:3, anothen meaning either "again" or "from above." Knowing how John typically uses dual-meaning words, he's likely intending to convey "born again from above."

Now, what you've said really falls off the rails is this statement: "Scripture is clear that man is not passive in this birth." The tense of the verb gennao is passive. The text literally says that man is passive--he is acted upon by God. Just as a baby is passive in his or her birth, so man is passive in his or her being born again.

Here's the catch, though. Man isn't saved by regeneration. Regeneration will inevitably and irresistibly lead to man's salvation, but regeneration is not salvation. Man must respond to God in repentance and faith. Regeneration enables this response.

So, man responds God's work; God does not respond to man. God responding to man is the essence of every pagan and false religion. False religion says "I must do something to get god to do something... I must show my devotion so that he will act favorably to me." True Christianity is exactly the opposite: We respond to God because He has already set His favor upon us.

The Archangel

 

1. Man is passive.
This simply means that the object is not know.

Nicodemus was born again (by whom?)
Jesus was baptized (by whom?)
I was saved (by whom?)

So it is put in the passive tense. So what. That doesn't prove anything.

2. Man isn't saved by regeneration...regeneration will inevitably lead to man's salvation.
--What a lark! Regeneration and salvation happen simultaneously. Regeneration does not "inevitably" lead to salvation. They both happen at the same time. Here, I think you are speaking of something totally unbiblical. Perhaps you say this to prop up your ideas on Cornelius--I don't know. But regeneration and salvation happen at the same time.

3. Man responds to God's work.
I believe we all agree here. I don't think any different was said. Christ did the work. He died on the cross. He paid the penalty. He rose again. He offers salvation to each and everyone as a gift.
We respond in faith by accepting that gift, or as many will, rejecting that gift.

4. As was clearly stated early and defined in the Word of God, "faith" is not a work. It is not classified as a work.
Will you pay me for my "faith". If you classify "faith" as a work then you contradict the Word of God which pits faith against works. See Romans 4:1-5.

 

Let me know when you are ready to discuss my points made!

 

Man by nature in the flesh doesn't have Faith to respond with, since Faith pleases God Hebrew 11:6 and man in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !

 

So what happens when you act out of the flesh? You don't please God either. Correct? Does that mean you don't have faith?

 

You have man doing something that the scriptures say he can't do!

 

Brother Mitchell,

You were passive in your physical birth, likewise it is with your spiritual birth. All analogies of the new birth presented in the scriptures suggest an irresistible power working on a passive object. In particular, the acquisition of spiritual life is presented in the scriptures as being analogous to:

1) birth - Jn 1:11-13, Jn 3:3-8
2) quickening - Eph 2:1-5, Col 2:13
3) translation - Col 1:12-13
4) resurrection - Jn 5:25-29
5) creation - 2Cor 5:17, Eph 2:10

No individual experiencing any of the above transitions ever contributed in the least degree to the transition, nor have they ever successfully resisted it.

Faith is a work. "Remembering without ceasing your work of faith" (1 Thessalonians 1:3a), also, "and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power" (2 Thessalonians 1:11b) and , "28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6:28-29),

Also, concerning your example of Abraham being justified by faith, he was born again prior to being justified by faith according to scripture. Why do I say this? Hebrews 11.8 states that in Genesis 11.31 Abraham left Ur by faith. If Abraham had faith then he was already born again. Galatians 5.22 lists faith as a fruit of the Spirit. You have to have the Spirit to have its fruit. Therefore Abraham had the Spirit when he left Ur 10 years before he was justified by faith.

-Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 15; let’s look at the preceding chapters to see Abraham’s spiritual character.
O.T. examples:
Genesis: 11:31 Abraham (then Abram) leaves Ur by faith (see Hebrews 11:8) to follow God’s will.
Genesis: 12.1 Abraham speaks verbally with God.
Genesis: 12.8 Abraham built an altar to God.
Genesis: 14.19 Melchisedec testified that Abraham was blessed by God.
Genesis: 14.10 Abraham gave tithes to Melchisedec, a priest to God.

 

What do you mean? Man can't act "out of the flesh"?
Man can't act so that he doesn't please God?
This is the state of all mankind. I thought you were a Calvinist?

 

Are you ready to address my points ?

 

Are you going to address mine?

 

DHK - If I might provide some insight for you into SBM, although I'm sure you already know this...