Featured Why so much Angst About Limited atonement?

It took the death, burial and resurrection to save sinners.


TBS, if He wasn't resurrected, we're in grave peril....


That's why I said we aren't saved by His death but His resurrection...

 

Assuming you are correct in your interpretation of the word for world, that it applies only to sheep (which I disagree with), John was writing to first century Christians, not 21st century Christians. He was writing to the "world" and "the sheep" of his time.
If you are going to restrict this word "world" to your definition of "sheep," "elect," why not go right to the very context and restrict it to "first century believers" only. That is what the context is, isn't it?

Your definition is restrictive. You want to restrict it to the elect. You have redefined it to mean the elect only. Then keep on going. Take the entire context into view. It really means first century Christians only.
How, therefore, can you be sure that you are one of the elect?

 

John was a Apostle to the Circumcision , which were Jewish Believers, that is who he was writing to, yet he told them that Christ was not only the propitiation for their sins, but for the sins of the Gentile world of Believers also! This is pretty elementary, for Christ can't be the propitiation for people under the wrath of God as per John 3:36 that is a contradiction to propitiation! I don't believe you even know what propitiation means! Go do some study and come back and tell us what it means!

 

Those He died for are saved by His death and by His Resurrection! If they were not saved from the penalty of their sins by His Death, He would not have rose from the dead at all! He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25 and to say those He died for are not saved by it, is denying the Blood of Christ!

 

Propitiation means satisfaction SBM. You should learn that. The verse means that Christ satisfied the legal demands of God with his sacrifice on the cross that all the sins of mankind in every generation were paid for. His blood was sufficient enough to pay for every man's blood.
Contrary to your belief, Christ's power over sin is not deficient in any way. He is powerful enough to pay the price for all the sins of the entire world--ever person in every generation of all the world. Our God is a great God. But you believe he is anemic--only enough blood to pay for the sins of the so-called "elect."

And no, he was not an Apostle to the Circumcision. He was writing to the Gentiles--gentile believers that resided just outside the Roman empire--in other words, "the world."

 

That's right, Gods Wrath has been legally Satisfied for them Christ died for, so they are reconciled to God! They are in a state of peace and favor with God by His Death Rom 5:10 ! So they can't be under His wrath as these are Jn 3:36! So again you don't believe nor understand 1jn 2:2 ! No one is under Gods Wrath while they are reconciled to God by Christ death! That's a contradiction!

 

No you are wrong. He has made a propitiation for our sins. That is that satisfaction or the legal demands for payment have been met by Christ. You do not automatically go free. What if that payment, as John was addressing first century Christians in that first century "world" was only for them?
You haven't addressed the question of "world" yet?
How do you determine what "world" is?
You are simply going by a Calvinistic definition not considering other possibilities.
But if he has satisfied the legal demands of God for all men everywhere, then it is the responsibility of every man to believe on Him as a requirement for their salvation. When the governor pardons the prisoner, the prisoner must accept the pardon. If he doesn't actually accept it, he will not be pardoned.
When did you accept His pardon?

 

Whoever sins He was a propitiation for cannot be under Gods Wrath, as these are Jn 3 :36 !

 

We wait for the redemption of our bodies.
You suffer as much as anyone else in this world.
How can you tell if you are not under the wrath of God just as much as your unsaved neighbor may be? What is the difference between his lifestyle and yours except that you might be a little more "religious."
What do you think it means to be "under God's wrath," and how can you tell if you are not?

 

You don't get it! Those who Christ propitiated God for are not under Gods Wrath like these are John 3:36 ! You don't believe or understand what Propitiation is!

 

Yes I do understand.
Perhaps the problem is your inability to apply the scripture to yourself.
Scripture has meaning. You give it meaning but you can't seem to apply the meaning personally. Suppose the meaning of "the sins of the world" is confined to the ones that John was writing to, "the sins of the world (of the first century believers)". Then how would that interpretation affect you?

You are insistent that the word "world" must be defined according to Mr. Calvin.
But what if he is wrong? Then what?

 

DHK

This shows beyond any doubt that you do not understand biblical salvation at all. Just asking these questions shows it plain as day.

 

We both know what propitiation is. You are simply beating around the bush--avoiding the real question. How do you know that you are one of the elect?

 

I understand perfectly well what Biblical salvation is. I can answer every question I ask, and I am not ashamed or embarrassed to answer them.

How about this:
The Bible says "the gift of God is eternal life."
If you have eternal life how do you (as a Calvinist) know for sure that you have eternal life?
How can any Calvinist ever be sure that he is one of the elect?

 

Salvation doesn't happen solely by Jesus' death. We are saved by His life. The death, burial and resurrection is similiar to the 'fire triangle' where if one component is missing, there's no fire. If Jesus died and wasn't resurrected, there's no salvation. If He didn't die, no salvation.

It takes all three...

 

Calvinists obey 2 pet1:3-12.....that is how they make their calling And election sure

 

2Pe 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2Pe 1:11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
--So you believe salvation is by works?

Can any person practice these things and they will have eternal life?

 

No you don't understand it, or you would see that Christ death wasn't for them who are under Gods Wrath! Its impossible because His death alone reconciled them to God as well as propitiated Gods Wrath!

 

You evaded my points and the Truth. You deny the saving death of Christ! Those Christ died for are saved by His death and by His life! Peter wrote that believers had been saved by His death when he wrote that by His stripes you were healed 1Peter 2:24 ! You don't believe it and deny it!

 

Another error in your belief and which dishonours Christ, that those Christ died for are not free from the penalty of their sins and Justified from them, that is redemption! Those Christ died for have to their account redemption by His blood Eph 1:7 !