The Apostle Peter on the Second Coming of Our LORD

[OldRegular]

2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Now obviously Peter is talking about the Second Coming since he states: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. The new heavens and new earth follows the Second Coming!

Obviously Peter is NOT talking about the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church since that is supposedly done in secret.

If the so-called-pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church had happened in the previous 7 years or less Peter could not have made the following statement: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[beameup]

There is more than one "day of the Lord". This particular "day of the Lord" refers to the end of the Millennium when the "old earth" will be "rolled up like a scroll" (ie: destroyed), and a New Heavens and New Earth (wherein dwells righteousness) is created.

 

[OldRegular]

There is more than one "day of the Lord". This particular "day of the Lord" refers to the end of the Millennium when the "old earth" will be "rolled up like a scroll" (ie: destroyed), and a New Heavens and New Earth (wherein dwells righteousness) is created.

And all this time you pre-trib-dispensationalists have been saying that Jesus Christ comes at the beginning of the millennium. Now you say HE is coming again at the end of the millennium.

That is the problem when you make things up. You never can tell the same story twice! It changes however necessary to cover your previous false statements!

But I will give you credit, "beameup". None of the other Rapture Ready people have responded!

 

[revmwc]

And all this time you pre-trib-dispensationalists have been saying that Jesus Christ comes at the beginning of the millennium. Now you say HE is coming again at the end of the millennium.

That is the problem when you make things up. You never can tell the same story twice! It changes however necessary to cover your previous false statements!

But I will give you credit, "beameup". None of the other Rapture Ready people have responded!

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.


Chapter 21 of Revelation. Verse 1 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

Let’s go to Peter and see what he had to say about this new heaven and new earth. 2nd Peter 3: 10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”
1. Peter says this earth which we live on will melt with fervent heat.
2. All the human works will be burned up.
3. He states “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved.”
4. Since all will be dissolved that man has worked for, Peter exhorts us with this question.
5. “What manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness?”

All of this is backed up with O.T. Prophecy,

Fulfillment of Old Testament scripture, Isaiah 65: 16 “That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” Coupled with Isaiah 66: 21 “And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”

Peter is indeed speaking of the second coming which will take place a the end of the Tribulation seen in Revelation 19 and then following the 1000 reign as laid out in Revelation 20 we see the New Heaven and the New Earth, Jesus makes it perfectly clear in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just read the book of Revelation.

 

[kyredneck]

...Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians.....

Yes.

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 1 Cor 15

Notice at His next coming He has reigned already and the kingdom has been already?

 

[revmwc]

Yes.

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 1 Cor 15

Notice at His next coming He has reigned already and the kingdom has been already?

Christ the first fruit's who came and died and literally rose from the grave. Then they who are Christ's at His coming, that is the rapture.
Then the end when He comes at second advent, rules in His kingdom and turns it over to God.

That we see in Revelation 20.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[PreachTony]

Peter is indeed speaking of the second coming which will take place a the end of the Tribulation seen in Revelation 19 and then following the 1000 reign as laid out in Revelation 20 we see the New Heaven and the New Earth, Jesus makes it perfectly clear in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just read the book of Revelation.

Just as a reminder to you, revmwc, but there are some of us here who do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of Revelation. Believe it or not, the BB does have a few amillennialists running around. Several of us even take on an eclectic reading of the apocalyptic texts in the scripture.

 

[revmwc]

Just as a reminder to you, revmwc, but there are some of us here who do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of Revelation. Believe it or not, the BB does have a few amillennialists running around. Several of us even take on an eclectic reading of the apocalyptic texts in the scripture.

I know that and that is why we discuss these issues.

 

[revmwc]

Just as a reminder to you, revmwc, but there are some of us here who do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of Revelation. Believe it or not, the BB does have a few amillennialists running around. Several of us even take on an eclectic reading of the apocalyptic texts in the scripture.

The thing is neither of us will know who is really right until we are in eternity with Christ and then it won't really matter much will it?

 

[PreachTony]

The thing is neither of us will know who is really right until we are in eternity with Christ and then it won't really matter much will it?

Exactly, hence the second line of my quote. :thumbs:

 

[revmwc]

Exactly, hence the second line of my quote. :thumbs:

The thing is though many on both sides want to correct the other and I did that not thinking on this one. But I have had several tell me I have a false doctrine, or that my view are ignorant etc. etc. I slipped up saying incorrect sorry.

 

[revmwc]

Exactly, hence the second line of my quote. :thumbs:

Reply corrected!

 

[PreachTony]

The thing is though many on both sides want to correct the other and I did that not thinking on this one. But I have had several tell me I have a false doctrine, or that my view are ignorant etc. etc. I slipped up saying incorrect sorry.

No doubt. We're all guilty of it.

 

[OldRegular]

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

That is similar to the remark by beameup:

Now obviously Peter is talking about the Second Coming since he states: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. The new heavens and new earth follows the Second Coming!

Obviously Peter is NOT talking about the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church since that is supposedly done in secret.

If the so-called-pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church had happened in the previous 7 years or less Peter could not have made the following statement: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

So obviously Peter is not talking about the start of a millennial reign!

 

[OldRegular]

Yes.

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 1 Cor 15

Notice at His next coming He has reigned already and the kingdom has been already?

Well said KY but Darby's followers show the same attributes of many cult followers.

 

[OldRegular]

Just as a reminder to you, revmwc, but there are some of us here who do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of Revelation. Believe it or not, the BB does have a few amillennialists running around. Several of us even take on an eclectic reading of the apocalyptic texts in the scripture.

Anyone who attempts to interpret Revelation literally is doomed to failure.

"A proper interpretation of the Book of Revelation requires an understanding of the literary form called apocalyptic literature? The word apocalyptic comes from apocalypse and is used to describe one literary form used in the book of Revelation. Ray Frank Robbins, a former professor at the New Orleans Baptist Seminary, describes apocalyptic literature, as follows[Revelation: Three Viewpoints, G. R. Beasley-Murray, Herschel H. Hobbs, Ray Frank Robbins.]:

We need to keep in mind the difference between the prophetic and the apocalyptic view of history. This will help us to interpret, I think, what the writer is saying. The prophetic view of history was that God and people work together. God and people work together to bring history to an end, to a goal. This was the prophetic view that we find in the former prophets. The Hebrews called the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings, the former prophets. In these books God and His people are represented as working together to bring history to its desired end. After the return from exile, and especially during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes [175-163 BC] it looked like the more godly, the more righteous the people were, the less they succeeded and the more they suffered. And so, there grew up a different view of history. This was known as the apocalyptic view. This view held that the world would become so evil and corrupt that God would intervene in history from without. He would break into history from without and would accomplish His purpose dramatically without the help of man. Now these two views of history were different in emphasis. The writer of Revelation combines the apocalyptic and the prophetic views.

Indeed the Book of Revelation is both apocalyptic and prophetic. There are similar books [or parts of books] in the Old Testament, notably Daniel and Ezekiel. Matthew 24-25, Luke 21, and Mark 13 are similar writings in the New Testament. Philip Edgcumbe Hughes in his commentary on the Book of Revelation writes specifically, though eloquently, of the apocalyptic language used in Revelation as follows [Introduction, page 7ff].

The title The Apocalypse by which this book is also known means simply [from its Greek original] ‘The Unveiling’ or ‘The Revelation’, and its significance is explained in the opening sentence of the book. The literary form or genre is that which is classified as Apocalyptic, and in this respect it is unique among the books of the New Testament. An apocalyptic writing discloses mysteries, generally with respect to the future - mysteries the import of which is sometimes plainly interpreted, but which frequently remain veiled in enigmatic figures and symbols. This holds good for the book of Revelation. [The visions of Ezekiel and Daniel are examples of apocalyptic writing in the Old Testament.]

The use of symbolism is a distinctive mark of apocalyptic literature. It is not surprising, therefore, that symbolism has an important role in Revelation, and in a serious work of this nature this is far from being just a conventional device or custom. There is a need for symbolism because the reality of the scenes revealed and recorded is transcendental in character. Vistas of eternity and infinity cannot be fully described by our human language which is finite and bound by time. But human language is our only medium for setting down and passing on disclosures of the transcendental realm; and so the seer must do his best to communicate what he has seen to others by means of analogical approximations and images which suggest and point beyond themselves to realities that far exceed all that can be said. The Lamb, who is so much the central figure in these visions, portrays the incarnate Son with reference to his offering up of himself as a substitutionary sacrifice to redeem sinful men and bring them back to God. Moreover, because of the symbolical character of the language, it is not incongruous or contradictory for the Lamb to be called the Lion of the tribe of Judah, for this designation declares the majestic power and supreme authority of the Son in the glory to which he has ascended. The whiteness of the robes of the redeemed signifies both the purgation of their sinfulness through the atoning sacrifice of the Son and also their conformity to his spotless purity in the glory for which they are destined. The surpassing beauty of the eternal realities witnessed by the Apostle is indicated by resorting to the inferior lustre of the lovely things of this present world, such as gold and precious stones and pellucid crystal.

We see that apocalyptic writing, which conveys the truth of God’s direct intervention in history as necessary, is not only a source of revelation to the ‘true believer’ but also a source of great spiritual nourishment."

 

[revmwc]

That is similar to the remark by beameup:



So obviously Peter is not talking about the start of a millennial reign!

That we see in Revelation 20.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[OldRegular]

That we see in Revelation 20.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20 says NOTHING about the false teaching of the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church. Neither does it teach that the Church for which Jesus Christ shed HIS blood is a "parenthesis" in GOD's program for national Israel! The Bible does not teach error. Darby and his disciples have and do!

 

[DHK]

Anyone who attempts to interpret Revelation literally is doomed to failure. The following comments are taken from my notes on Revelation.

Well, as long as they are just yournotes, then we have nothing to be concerned about.

 

[DHK]

Revelation 20 says NOTHING about the false teaching of the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church. Neither does it teach that the Church for which Jesus Christ shed HIS blood is a "parenthesis" in GOD's program for national Israel! The Bible does not teach error. Darby and his disciples have and do!

I don't know who Darby and disciples are. Do you? If they are on this board would you care to list them by name? Be careful about false accusations, they could land you in trouble.
And if you really don't know any, then stop with all the unnecessary bombastic rhetoric.