Featured The Apostle Peter on the Second Coming of Our LORD

I don't know. Who knows? Only God.
I know what you are saying seems logical to us.

But we can't ignore 2 Peter 2:1 and what it says, he bought men who were NOT saved.

Its seems from Romans 5 that we all shared in Adam's sin (one man) right then and there.

It may be that sin has a total price that had to be paid then and there in order that those who would believe could be revealed in the process of time.

The others are still His to do with as He pleases because He purchased all.

I purchased a bag of California cherries last week, some were to sour for me and I threw the sour ones away and ate the rest.

They were all mine by right of purchase to do with them whatever I pleased. To eat or throw away.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

HankD

 

Because God gave man volition. He told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam had a choice. Eat and be separated from Eve or disobey God and die. He made the choice for Eve. Mankind has been having to make a choice ever since. Abel chose for God, Cain's offering was from his works, God said offer a blood sacrifice, simple choice but Cain chose to murder his brother instead of obeying God. Volition is seen in those early years. Christ paid for the sins of the world that is all of mankind and Christ said those who are condemned are condemned for one reason, unbelief that is rejecting the payment for their sin which Jesus paid.

 

I agree that man is now depraved, but not "total inability," or so depraved that he has no will. That is very difficult to prove from scripture, especially in the light of all of the Lord's commands to unsaved man to: repent, come unto me, believe on me, etc.

 

We all have a Dominant old sin nature, until we call upon the name of the Lord for Salvation, then the Holy Spirit is to be dominant.


But Paul made it clear we must call upon the Lord for Salvation, Romans 10:13.

But after Salvation we chose everyday to walk with God or sin our choice. But we still have an Old Sin Nature, it brings temptations to us every single day, and we must choose to resist or give in.


Paul says and actually gives us the C.W.O.L. ( Christian Way of Life) in Ephesians 5:18 "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" In other words don't allow sin to control you as wine would but allow the Holy Spirit to control.

How do we do this, 1st John 1:9 makes it clear, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

If we as believers confess our sin God forgives them. Name them to Him each and every time we commit sin and He will forgive and cleanse us from all the sins we have committed that we don't realize are sins.

We have free will (volition) everyday even as believers, we choose to sin or not sin. And if we sin (and we do) we must choose to confess those sin in order to restore our fellowship or walk with God.

 

C vs. A : We don't have all the facts.

I remember seeing this on the news a few years ago:

The commentator said he would tell us a short story with an ending that required an explanation.

He told the news story and went to a commercial break saying he would give the ending when he came back.

Story: A California orange farmer reported that after 20 plus years, this year he raised a crop of oranges that was the largest crop of oranges he had ever raised.
However it was also the smallest crop of oranges he had ever raised (simultaneously).

Explanation: Next post


HankD

 

Explanation: Because of the unusual amount of rain that year the oranges were the largest in size ever.

But because of their size the crop contained the smallest number of oranges ever.

Without the explanation the story is a riddle.

So it is I believe with the supposed "tension" between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility to God.

There is missing data that we probably couldn't understand any way:


And I agree with OR, when it comes to trying to figure out God we are in way over our heads.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

HankD

 

God gave us His word, in that word is His plan ast least as much as He wants us to know. Then for this the Bride, that is the church He gave the indwelling Holy Spirit, He also allows us to be filled with the Spirit when we have sin confessed and we are walking with Him, thus Paul said this:

1 Corinthians 2:13-15,
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

God has given us the ability to discern Spiritual things, that is when we aren't operating the flesh and operating in the Control (filling) of the Holy Spirit. If we have the Holy Spirit to reveal things to us how can we be in over our heads. We just need to be in tune with Him. Now do we know everything of course not, even Paul said he had not fully attained all that god had for us.

 

Answer to OldRegular:

HankD No, the given passage does not directly address the church, the body of Christ in which both Jews and Gentiles will be brought together as one into the body of Christ. We are now distinct but not separated from each other by the "wall of partition" and free to go through the opened veil into the very presence of God together with our high priest Jesus Christ.

Aha!

HankD Even the apostles and disciples were astonished that Gentiles were to be welcomed into the kingdom without circumcision or the keeping of Torah.
Peter gives his account concerning how the Holy Spirit fell upon uncircumcised Gentiles:

Acts 11
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Indeed, it is so to this very day, however, messianic Jews tell us that Jewish believers coming to Christ are in similar proportion to Gentiles where the gospel is allowed to be preached. Roughly 3 to 5% of hearers will be saved.

The point therefore is that 1) Gentiles are similarly stiffnecked resisting the gospel today and 2) a few ethnic Jews are being saved today.

Reason: We have both descended from our stiffnecked father Adam.

HankD

 

Agreed - We must walk in the Spirit and we do not know everything.

HankD

 

I resurrect my response from post #4

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.


Chapter 21 of Revelation. Verse 1 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

Let’s go to Peter and see what he had to say about this new heaven and new earth. 2nd Peter 3: 10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”
1. Peter says this earth which we live on will melt with fervent heat.
2. All the human works will be burned up.
3. He states “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved.”
4. Since all will be dissolved that man has worked for, Peter exhorts us with this question.
5. “What manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness?”

All of this is backed up with O.T. Prophecy,

Fulfillment of Old Testament scripture, Isaiah 65: 16 “That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” Coupled with Isaiah 66: 21 “And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”

Peter is indeed speaking of the second coming which will take place a the end of the Tribulation seen in Revelation 19 and then following the 1000 reign as laid out in Revelation 20 we see the New Heaven and the New Earth, Jesus makes it perfectly clear in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

When Christ reigns in 1000 year Kingdom there will be people who are physically alive. They are the sheep of that were separated from the goats. The goats were put to death while the sheep were alive and go into the Kingdom.

 

You continue to deny his coming for a 1000 year reign not me. Believers have fallen asleep and still are. And things continue right now the way they have since creation. What is so hard about that? Then He will come and the church snatched out. The Trib as Daniel predicted and seen in Revelation 6-19 will happen, people will go through the wrath of God for 7 years. Then Christ will come to earth and the ressurection of the Tribulation saints and O.T. saints will occur. And they will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, Revelation 20 is clear, those who are resurrected at the second coming will be resurrected at the completion of first resurrection.
Then we see what Peter said about a new Heaven and New Earth is fufilled in Revelation 21.

Right now we are told Christ is seated at the Right Hand of God the Father waiting on the Father to make His enemies His footstool. That occurs in the Tribulation.

 

I'm curious what you mean by this. Are believer who have died, unconscious? Are they unaware of anything? Are they in limbo until the end?