The Apostle Peter on the Second Coming of Our LORD

[revmwc]

I'm curious what you mean by this. Are believer who have died, unconscious? Are they unaware of anything? Are they in limbo until the end?

Biblical term Peter used in the scripture. They have died and the body and soul separated. For the believer the soul and living spirit are seperated from the body.

If you believe in a resurrection whether pre-trib, mid-trib post -trib or as the amil the body will come to life is a resurrection form and thus be awakened from the sleep of death.

 

[blessedwife318]

What is the souls of believers doing after? Are they conscious?

 

[OldRegular]

So these sheep with all the resurrected Saints in their glorified bodies are on earth in which Jesus Christ in all HIS Glory reigns and after 1000 years they say: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Remarkable how far you will stretch credibility to defend the indefensible. Sort of like you trying to defend your claim that the Seven Year Tribulation would redeem the earth.

You continue to deny his coming for a 1000 year reign not me. Believers have fallen asleep and still are. And things continue right now the way they have since creation. What is so hard about that? Then He will come and the church snatched out. The Trib as Daniel predicted and seen in Revelation 6-19 will happen, people will go through the wrath of God for 7 years. Then Christ will come to earth and the ressurection of the Tribulation saints and O.T. saints will occur. And they will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, Revelation 20 is clear, those who are resurrected at the second coming will be resurrected at the completion of first resurrection.
Then we see what Peter said about a new Heaven and New Earth is fufilled in Revelation 21.

Right now we are told Christ is seated at the Right Hand of God the Father waiting on the Father to make His enemies His footstool. That occurs in the Tribulation.

Right now I am trying to get you, or anyone else, to answer a simple question. If the people that Peter is talking about have been living on earth during the so-called millennial kingdom why does Peter say they ask:Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

The people can't possibly be so stupid that they do not understand that the Saviour, Jesus Christ, in all the Glory of the Godhead has been reigning from Davids throne for 1000 years if as you say in post #4:

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

They could not ask Where is the promise of his coming? since HE has been here for 1000 years. Seems to me that this is a question you should be able to answer!

 

[revmwc]

What is the souls of believers doing after? Are they conscious?

Concious and in heaven. Paul says absent from the body present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[revmwc]

Right now I am trying to get you, or anyone else, to answer a simple question. If the people that Peter is talking about have been living on earth during the so-called millennial kingdom why does Peter say they ask:Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

The people can't possibly be so stupid that they do not understand that the Saviour, Jesus Christ, in all the Glory of the Godhead has been reigning from Davids throne for 1000 years if as you say in post #4:



They could not ask Where is the promise of his coming? since HE has been here for 1000 years. Seems to me that this is a question you should be able to answer!

The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

Many people in this present age question His coming. Many say it has been almost 2000 years and He hasn't returned. But He said He would return for those who are His. Peter said many "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

 

[blessedwife318]

Concious and in heaven. Paul says absent from the body present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Good answer just wanted to make sure we were on the same page there.

 

[revmwc]

Good answer just wanted to make sure we were on the same page there.

That is something every believer should know, but I have run into to some who believe in soul sleeping.

 

[OldRegular]

{Post #165}The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

That is false and you know it. You have said repeatedly:

I resurrect my response from post #4

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

You say in post #4 that Peter is speaking about what happens after the supposed 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus Christ with the resurrected Saints. Yet you say in the post #165 that the people Peter are addressing are not in the supposed millennial kingdom but those living today. If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth!Man you are running around in circles chasing your tail!

Many people in this present age question His coming. Many say it has been almost 2000 years and He hasn't returned. But He said He would return for those who are His. Peter said many "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth!

Unwittingly you are making the point that Peter cannot be talking about a previous millennial kingdom. He certainly cannot be talking about the beginning of the so-called millennial reign as the following Scripture shows. He is talking about what happens when Jesus Christ returns in Power and Glory for the general resurrection of all that are in the graves and then to conduct the White throne Judgment!

9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[DHK]

{Post #165}The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

That is false and you know it. You have said repeatedly:

I gave you this explanation once before here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2218571&postcount=53
I have cleaned it up some, and will post it again for you:

2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
--This is the first part of Peter's answer to the scoffers who have come in the last days, in which Peter believed he was in. That also means that every person in every generation should believe they are in the last days, awaiting the coming of the Lord. Peter says this in just a bit.

7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
--As judgement came to Noah it will come again to this earth. Time is no problem with God.
--Verse 8 simply speaks of eternity. God lives outside of time.

9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
--Though judgment will come upon all the earth as it came upon all the earth in Noah's day, God is not willing that any human should perish. He does not delight in the death of the wicked.

10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
--The day of the Lord is an interesting phrase. The OT prophets saw this time as a period of darkness and damnation culminating with their restoration (and the Millennial Kingdom). After that there would be a new heaven and new earth. But, first the Kingdom. We know this from other scriptures.

11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
--In light of these things we should live godly lives.
Now obviously Peter is talking about the Second Coming since he states: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. The new heavens and new earth follows the Second Coming!

--In this passage he does not start with the rapture. He starts with the tribulation. There are two aspects to the Second Coming: the rapture and the Second Advent. In light of all these things that are about to take place live Godly lives.

OR says: If the so-called-pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church had happened in the previous 7 years or less Peter could not have made the following statement: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Why? Christ had not come again, no matter what your eschatological view was. The false teachers were Jews looking for the Kingdom. The Kingdom would be set up after "the Day of the Lord," a very dark period in the future of the Jews. That very dark day occurs after the rapture which is not mentioned here. His account starts after that event. It begins with "the day of the Lord," which is the beginning of the Tribulation, immediately following the rapture.

 

[revmwc]

{Post #165}The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.
Let me break it down fully:
2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
First we see as believers we are to hold fast the word of God as written by the Apostles and prophets. Knowing this first, that there are in the Eschatos (last in a series or time) Hermea (the last of this present age). So what do have in the last of this present age there will come Empaiktes a mocker, a scoffer. Walking in their own lust that is desire. Saying where is the promise of His coming, coming for who or what. We see who He is coming for in Matthew 25.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Who is the Bridegroom, we know from Revelation it is the Lamb. The virgins would be the church, the bride, the oil would mean they have the Holy Spirit. The unwise virgins are members of the local churches void of the indwelling Spirt. These would be a part of the scoffers. While those who aren’t saved seek the Holy Spirit Christ comes and takes the bride home. The unwise virgins cannot go for the door is closed in heaven.
Peter is describing the unwise virgins seen here as the scoffers at the end of times. Not waiting and watching fully for Christ. They are willingly ignorant of the word of God just as those of the days of Noah.

6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
The world was flooded in Noah’s time Peter ensures we know that the flood was of the whole world. And all but 8 perished in that flood.

7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This earth is reserved for God’s judgment that is the Tribulation which is that judgment and it has been but a short time less than two days since one day to the Lord is 1000 years and a 1000 years one day. Christ has only been in heaven just over a day.

10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
Jesus will come for the church as a thief in the night that will be unannounced to satan and the world, but there will be a shout and the trump will sound and the dead will rise and we who are alive and remain will meet Him in the air.
A semicolon can be used between two closely related independent clauses, provided they are not already joined by a coordinating conjunction. Thus we have the break between the two.
Between the return for the church and the new heaven and earth the Lord returns at the Second Advent and rules for 1000 years as seen in Revelation 20, the world will be renovated by fire. Revelation 21 states then the new heaven and earth will come.

Revelation 19: 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
The unholy trinity and the armies of the earth know He is coming, we see they “gathered together to make war against him that sat on the Horse.” We know this is Christ and these armies are gathered on earth. How would they know He was returning, they know because they marked 7 years do we see this no, but we see they know He is coming and they had time to be waiting on Him. But Peter said the Lord would come as thief in the night that can only be at the rapture. This event is after the Rapture and they have gathered to war against Christ who is coming, they know the prophecy and they understand He is coming.

He comes and we see
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

The earth will be dissolved so we need to live for Him. We see this prophecy of Peter fulfilled in Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Perfectly seen is the Rapture in the early part and then the end Peter. Peter skipped the Millennial Kingdom why the Holy Spirit can only answer that.

 

[OldRegular]

Peter is talking about the Second Coming. At that time there will be a general resurrection and judgment. Peters use of symbolic language {wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?} is used to describe either the renewal of the earth as Paul discusses in Romans 8 or simply the New Heavens and New Earth as discussed in Revelation 21. I believe it is the latter!

 

[OldRegular]

{Post #165}The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

Let me break it down fully:
2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
First we see as believers we are to hold fast the word of God as written by the Apostles and prophets. Knowing this first, that there are in the Eschatos (last in a series or time) Hermea (the last of this present age). So what do have in the last of this present age there will come Empaiktes a mocker, a scoffer. Walking in their own lust that is desire. Saying where is the promise of His coming, coming for who or what. We see who He is coming for in Matthew 25.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Who is the Bridegroom, we know from Revelation it is the Lamb. The virgins would be the church, the bride, the oil would mean they have the Holy Spirit. The unwise virgins are members of the local churches void of the indwelling Spirt. These would be a part of the scoffers. While those who aren’t saved seek the Holy Spirit Christ comes and takes the bride home. The unwise virgins cannot go for the door is closed in heaven.
Peter is describing the unwise virgins seen here as the scoffers at the end of times. Not waiting and watching fully for Christ. They are willingly ignorant of the word of God just as those of the days of Noah.

6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
The world was flooded in Noah’s time Peter ensures we know that the flood was of the whole world. And all but 8 perished in that flood.

7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This earth is reserved for God’s judgment that is the Tribulation which is that judgment and it has been but a short time less than two days since one day to the Lord is 1000 years and a 1000 years one day. Christ has only been in heaven just over a day.

10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
Jesus will come for the church as a thief in the night that will be unannounced to satan and the world, but there will be a shout and the trump will sound and the dead will rise and we who are alive and remain will meet Him in the air.
A semicolon can be used between two closely related independent clauses, provided they are not already joined by a coordinating conjunction. Thus we have the break between the two.
Between the return for the church and the new heaven and earth the Lord returns at the Second Advent and rules for 1000 years as seen in Revelation 20, the world will be renovated by fire. Revelation 21 states then the new heaven and earth will come.

Revelation 19: 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
The unholy trinity and the armies of the earth know He is coming, we see they “gathered together to make war against him that sat on the Horse.” We know this is Christ and these armies are gathered on earth. How would they know He was returning, they know because they marked 7 years do we see this no, but we see they know He is coming and they had time to be waiting on Him. But Peter said the Lord would come as thief in the night that can only be at the rapture. This event is after the Rapture and they have gathered to war against Christ who is coming, they know the prophecy and they understand He is coming.

He comes and we see
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

The earth will be dissolved so we need to live for Him. We see this prophecy of Peter fulfilled in Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Perfectly seen is the Rapture in the early part and then the end Peter. Peter skipped the Millennial Kingdom why the Holy Spirit can only answer that.

You have said as I showed by your post #4 that Peter is speaking after the, well this is how you state it:

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

Instead of breaking it down fully with a lot of semantics why not respond my refutation in post #168 to your posts #165 and #4!

 

[revmwc]

Peter is talking about the Second Coming. At that time there will be a general resurrection and judgment. Peters use of symbolic language {wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?} is used to describe either the renewal of the earth as Paul discusses in Romans 8 or simply the New Heavens and New Earth as discussed in Revelation 21. I believe it is the latter!

Really????

Here is the second coming:

Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

After the defeat of the Beast, Kings of the Earth and their armies we see.

Revelation 20:
2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

This is the Kingdom.

Very clear the Armies following Him where do they follow Him? To the earth and then the Tribulation saints who died are resurrected and reign with Him 1000 years as well as those who trusted Christ as their savior and then comes the resurrection of the dead. This is very clear.

 

[revmwc]

You have said as I showed by your post #4 that Peter is speaking after the, well this is how you state it:


Instead of breaking it down fully with a lot of semantics why not respond my refutation in post #168 to your posts #165 and #4!

i responded to one verse that you posed a question to in that post. If you wanted the whole thing done I missed that. You centered in on one verse and I answered that.

 

[OldRegular]

I will repeat my post #168 so perhaps you can respond to it directly as I requested.

{Post #165}The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

That is false and you know it. You have said repeatedly:

Originally Posted by revmwc
I resurrect my response from post #4

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

You say in post #4 that Peter is speaking about what happens after the supposed 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus Christ with the resurrected Saints. Yet you say in the post #165 that the people Peter are addressing are not in the supposed millennial kingdom but those living today. If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth! Man you are running around in circles chasing your tail!

Originally Posted by revmwc
Many people in this present age question His coming. Many say it has been almost 2000 years and He hasn't returned. But He said He would return for those who are His. Peter said many "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth!

Unwittingly you are making the point that Peter cannot be talking about a previous millennial kingdom. He certainly cannot be talking about the beginning of the so-called millennial reign as the following Scripture shows. He is talking about what happens when Jesus Christ returns in Power and Glory for the general resurrection of all that are in the graves and then to conduct the White throne Judgment!

9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
__________________

 

[revmwc]

I will repeat my post #168 so perhaps you can respond to it directly as I requested.


That is false and you know it. You have said repeatedly:


You say in post #4 that Peter is speaking about what happens after the supposed 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus Christ with the resurrected Saints. Yet you say in the post #165 that the people Peter are addressing are not in the supposed millennial kingdom but those living today. If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth! Man you are running around in circles chasing your tail!



If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth!

Unwittingly you are making the point that Peter cannot be talking about a previous millennial kingdom. He certainly cannot be talking about the beginning of the so-called millennial reign as the following Scripture shows. He is talking about what happens when Jesus Christ returns in Power and Glory for the general resurrection of all that are in the graves and then to conduct the White throne Judgment!

9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
__________________

See my post 170!

 

[OldRegular]

See my post 170!

Post 170 answered nothing. It was a lot of verbiage strung together with Scripture that did not address the issue.

You state in your post #4 and thereafter:

See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.

Then in your post #165 you say:

The people that Peter is talking about are not in the Millennium it is those living today who question His coming. Many teach it is those who question His coming at the rapture, that is how the pastor I grew up taught it.

I respond in post#168 as follows:

If Peter is talking about what happens after the millennial reign how in the world can he be addressing people of today? If the 1000 year reign has occurred there are no people of today. There are no people left to run around saying Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. After the 1000 year reign people are either in the Lake of Fire with Satan or in the New Heavens and New Earth!

You are proposing an impossible scenario. But that is the history of the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church dispensationalism.

 

[OldRegular]

2 Peter 3:1-14
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Now obviously Peter is talking about the Second Coming since he states: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. The new heavens and new earth follows the Second Coming!

Obviously Peter is NOT talking about the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church since that is supposedly done in secret.

If the so-called-pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church had happened in the previous 7 years or less Peter could not have made the following statement: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Where O where did the little dispies go. O where, O where, did they go!

 

[revmwc]

Where O where did the little dispies go. O where, O where, did they go!

We answered you say nonsense and so no debate needed. You seem just want to say nonsense or some other answer and never give an answer. Besides my post 170 answered you and you failed to replay so where oh where is the true debate. OR receives answers doesn't like but won't offer a reason for his objection.

 

[OldRegular]

We answered you say nonsense and so no debate needed. You seem just want to say nonsense or some other answer and never give an answer. Besides my post 170 answered you and you failed to replay so where oh where is the true debate. OR receives answers doesn't like but won't offer a reason for his objection.

The reason for my objection is that you answer nothing! I posed two questions in the OP. You have answered neither

Now obviously Peter is talking about the Second Coming since he states: Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. The new heavens and new earth follows the Second Coming!

Obviously Peter is NOT talking about the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church since that is supposedly done in secret.

If the so-called-pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church had happened in the previous 7 years or less Peter could not have made the following statement: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Furthermore, Peter is not talking about the end of the 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus Christ who is sitting in the Glory of GOD on David's throne in the rebuilt Temple. The obvious event that Peter is describing are those things that occur when Jesus Christ returns, there is a resurrection of all the dead, followed by the White Throne Judgment and the New Heavens and New Earth!