Wrestling Scriptures ( Joshua 10:26)

[vooks]

"No servile work" was to be done on festive 'sabbaths'.

The passover's 'sabbath' had VERY MUCH things commanded to be done on it.

Traditions of men are not commandment of the Scriptures.


And: Who said << if he died well into Sabbath>>? ...don't become totally ludicrous!

That's a minor point. Jews were avoiding a hanging criminal on sabbath. I said IF. Had they not broken their legs, sabbath would have found them alive. How long do you reckon it took for a hanged criminal to die unaided?

 

[PreachTony]

Fact remains that had Joseph not begged, the body would have remained there for longer. And his death was part state execution which explains the Roman lien over the body. Else what was a centurion doing at the cross?

A centurion was at the cross because, so far as I can recall from studying history, even though Rome often allowed conquered territories to retain many rituals, they did not often allow capital punishment lest it was overseen by Roman soldiers or officials. That's why Jesus went to Pilate after the sham of a trial the Sanhedrin put Him through. Pilate sent Him to Herod, who sent Him back, and then Pilate turned Him over to the Jews gathered there, who demanded that He be crucified. Pilate washed his hands of it, claiming no responsibility, but Rome still oversaw the execution.

 

[vooks]

No sir; the Jews begged/requested acceleration of their deaths so the crucified would not remain hanging alive or HOWEVER!

--- NOT <into> as you say, but “on the sabbath” as John wrote;
--- NOT <<which was hours away>> as you say, but as John wrote, “since / because [‘gar’] that same day”
---<<SAME day>> as you have just above yourself argued re Mark 4:35
--- “since / because that same day WAS (Imperfect Ongoing) great day-sabbath-of” the passover and
---<<they would not have hanging bodies” AT ALL— especially not when day would break and the crosses would be standing there in everybody’s sight.

Don’t add the words YOU need for your own story; stick to the words you NEED for the truth which are the words WRITTEN.

The minimal qualification for participating in this debate is basic literacy. Are you literate? Can you read?

Read this;
John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

Embarrassingly simple logic;
1. Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation - Friday/day before sabbath
2. Jews did not want the body remaining till Sabbath.
3. Jews proposed accelerated death to avoid this


CONCLUSION
If they did not want the body on the cross on sabbath, they would not have crucified him on Sabbath!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth by adding to what I wrote.

If we are not allowed to account for the historical practices of Rome (or any other culture) when studying the scriptures, then we severely limit our ability to understand why certain things took place. I'm all for scripture being the final authority, but knowledge of history can enhance our understanding of scripture (though we still need the Holy Spirit to revelate our minds).

But you have this strange tendency to take scripture and twist it and bend it as far as you can to fit whatever your notion of the day is. You excel at eisegesis.

...starting with academic conditions only to climax in decadent denunciations. Much of a help for either party.

 

[PreachTony]

Had they not broken their legs, sabbath would have found them alive. How long do you reckon it took for a hanged criminal to die unaided?

There are instances of people surviving crucifixion. Christ died quite quickly. In a physical sense, He had suffered great trauma and loss of blood as a result of the scourging and beating by the Praetorian Guard. His scourging appears to have been worse than many Roman beatings, as it was written that his visage was marred more than anyone ever had been. The blood loss would account for a changed pace of heart rate, and he would've been in a prolonged state of shock. In a spiritual sense, Christ had said that He would lay down His life, and He had the power to pick it up again.

For the thieves, who were not likely scourged, but instead were put on the cross as their punishment, if they were healthy then they could have lived for several days. Many deaths on the cross were the result of asphyxiation, as drawing breath required pushing oneself up. The heel could wear down to the bone in doing this, if the body didn't give out before that. Once the body gave out on being able to lift up to draw breath, then the lungs would begin to fill with fluid and asphyxiation or a form of drowning would occur.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That's a minor point. Jews were avoiding a hanging criminal on sabbath. I said IF. Had they not broken their legs, sabbath would have found them alive. How long do you reckon it took for a hanged criminal to die unaided?

You might thinks so; the Jews did not think <<that (wa)s a minor point>>. "THAT SAME DAY", "the whole day-BONE Day (of it), was great day of sabbath" to the Jews. They found the Romans' crucified bodies hanging around on their "great day sabbath" extremely <relevant>.
If they didn't, they might have just <<avoid(ed) a hanging criminal on sabbath>> and done nothing of what they've done.

 

[vooks]

You might thinks so; the Jews did not think <<that (wa)s a minor point>>. "THAT SAME DAY", "the whole day-BONE Day of it", "was great day of sabbath" to the Jews. They found the Roman's crucified bodies hanging around on their "great day sabbath" extremely <relevant>.

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?

Please don't explain for now, just answer

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The minimal qualification for participating in this debate is basic literacy. Are you literate? Can you read?

Read this;
John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

Embarrassingly simple logic;
1. Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation - Friday/day before sabbath
2. Jews did not want the body remaining till Sabbath.
3. Jews proposed accelerated death to avoid this


CONCLUSION
If they did not want the body on the cross on sabbath, they would not have crucified him on Sabbath!

All this has NOTHING to do with <literacy> I'm afraid, but ALL with FRAUD.

Embarrassingly TRUE for you it must be:

1. Jesus was NOT crucified on the day of preparation - Friday/day before sabbath

2. Jews did not want the body "remain on the cross ON the Sabbath".

 

[vooks]

All this has NOTHING to do with <literacy> I'm afraid, but ALL with FRAUD.

Embarrassingly TRUE for you it must be:

1. Jesus was NOT crucified on the day of preparation - Friday/day before sabbath

2. Jews did not want the body "remain on the cross ON the Sabbath".

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?

Please don't explain for now, just answer

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?

Please don't explain for now, just answer

I don't explain to a madman.

On second thought ... I'll answer ... AGAIN : Jesus was NOT crucified on a sabbath!

 

[vooks]

I don't explain to a madman.

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?

Simple and concise answers will do

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?

Simple and concise answers will do

You missed my post before yours.

 

[vooks]

You missed my post before yours.

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?


Looks like you lack any convictions but you make up beliefs and doctrines on the go and that's why you are scared of committing.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

For record sake,
1. Are you saying that Jesus was crucified on a sabbath?
2. If Yes to #1, what sabbath, weekly or annual?


Looks like you lack any convictions but you make up beliefs and doctrines on the go and that's why you are scared of committing.

You talk about literacy necessary for taking part on this forum.

Well, Can't you read, mister, I told you, Jesus was NOT crucified on a Sabbath!

Doesn't it answer your 'question'? … in fact, both your questions.

 

[vooks]

You talk about literacy necessary for taking part on this forum.

Well, Can't you read, mister, I told you, Jesus was NOT crucified on a Sabbath!

Doesn't it answer your 'question'? … in fact, both your questions.

Look at your reply post #58

No sir; the Jews begged/requested acceleration of their deaths so the crucified would not remain hanging alive or HOWEVER!

--- NOT <into> as you say, but “on the sabbath” as John wrote;
--- NOT <<which was hours away>> as you say, but as John wrote, “since / because [‘gar’] that same day”
---<<SAME day>> as you have just above yourself argued re Mark 4:35
--- “since / because that same day WAS (Imperfect Ongoing) great day-sabbath-of” the passover and
---<<they would not have hanging bodies>> AT ALL— especially not when day would break and the crosses would be standing there in everybody’s sight.

Don’t add the words YOU need for your own story; stick to the words you NEED for the truth which are the words WRITTEN.

My point was the Jews requested hastening of the deaths of the crucified so thaT Sabbath would not find them on the cross because sabbath was hours away but you said it was ALREADY Sabbath.

 

[vooks]

I don't explain to a madman.

On second thought ... I'll answer ... AGAIN : Jesus was NOT crucified on a sabbath!

John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Question
On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Look at your reply post #58



My point was the Jews requested hastening of the deaths of the crucified so thaT Sabbath would not find them on the cross because sabbath was hours away but you said it was ALREADY Sabbath.

Yes, that is what John 19:31 unequivocally states. "That Day was GREAT-DAY-SABBATH-OF" : the passover : 'FEAST-sabbath'! Not the Sabbath of the week.

Hope that clarifies it now.

John 19:31 ALSO states "that day great day sabbath was : ...The Preparation" which had begun with it "having been evening already". Mark 15:42 the parallel text of John 19:31.

See the Synopsis of the Gospels threads on this forum currently.

.

 

[vooks]

Yes, that is what John 19:31 unequivocally states. "That Day was GREAT-DAY-SABBATH-OF" : the passover : 'FEAST-sabbath'! Not the Sabbath of the week.

Hope that clarifies it now.

John 19:31 ALSO states "that day great day sabbath was : ...The Preparation" which had begun with it "having been evening already". Mark 15:42 the parallel text of John 19:31.

See the Synopsis of the Gospels threads on this forum currently.

.

Are you well? You are confused or making up your theories on the go

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on Sabbath, so they wait UNTIL sabbath so they can remove the body?
2. When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?
3. What is day of Preparation?

John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away

Mark 15:42 (ESV)
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath

Mark mirrors V38 which happened AFTER v 31
John 19:38 (ESV)
38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took away his body.

Your bogus unintelligible theory suggests that Jesus hanged on the cross right up to sabbath morning (he hanged the whole night or half of the sabbath hours). But here you have clear proof that of the Jews requesting for accelerated deaths so there can't be no body hanging on sabbath.

Crucifixion was a death sentence and nobody could come off the cross alive; so Jews request the crucified bones broken so they can die much quicker so their families or whoever may access their bodies BEFORE sabbath

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Question
On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

"on the first of the sabbaths" is incorrect. John is referring TO: "It being EVENING with (Dative Demonstrative Pronoun) reference TO" what had happened "THAT DAY on the First Day of the week" ('Sunday').

'Tehi miai (Hehmerai) sabbatohn' is New Testament and Christian Greek Idiom for "the First Day of the week".

It is impossible the Feminine Dative Article and Numeral <<the first of the>> can agree to the Neuter Genitive Noun <<sabbaths>>. The Feminine word, "day" is supposed and acts, by Synecdochee and Ellipses.

Idiom is not rigid inflexible grammatical rule.

 

[vooks]

"on the first of the sabbaths"is incorrect. John is referring TO: "It being EVENING with (Dative Demonstrative Pronoun) reference TO" what had happened "THAT DAY on the First Day of the week" ('Sunday').

'Tehi miai (Hehmerai) sabbatohn' is New Testament and Christian Greek Idiom for "the First Day of the week".

It is impossible the Feminine Dative Article and Numeral <<the first of the>> can agree to the Neuter Genitive Noun <<sabbaths>>. The Feminine word, "day" is supposed and acts, by Synecdochee and Ellipses.

Idiom is not rigid inflexible grammatical rule.

More useless than a glass of spit.


John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Questions
1.On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

2. Paraphrase John 20:19 in your OWN words 'correctly'