Discerning the Kingdom of Light vs the Kingdom of Darkness

[Darrell C]

What happened to TV viewing? Special effects got better. The themes you speak of have existed in literature and plays long before TV.

I think the primary point is...that's about all there is now.

Nobody, I mean nobody...can find any fault with Leave it to Beaver, lol.

Or Andy Griffith, for that matter (a personal hero of mine).

Andy would have locked Harry Callahan up, but would have probably made sure Aunt Bea fed him well and probably would have let him out for the Sunday service.


God bless.

 

[Calypsis4]

In The Light; No, I said you'd lost credibility. I didn't say you had NO credibility. Sheesh, what is with people that have trouble with reading comprehension?

Don't even go there, friend. I taught English grammar years ago and I know when there is or is not more then one possible meaning to a sentence.

You said, "...you've just lost credibility." So by that statement how can one tell just how much credibility I have lost in your opinion? Such a statement without further information is impossible to discern. You did not make yourself clear.

But I can assume I have at least 1% credibility with you because you are still asking questions. So I will be kind enough to answer.

So where do these bodies come from that demons turn into?

They are supernaturally transformed from the spirit realm into the physical one just like Satan did when He tried to tempt Jesus. And... just like the angels are sometimes transformed into the physical and appear to men on occasion;

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Secondly, your reply that the dancing satyrs of Isaiah 13:21 is sort of ridiculous. Why? Well, look at what the rest of the verse in context (vss 19-21) to the subject for it tells us:

¶ And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

Everything in that prophecy has been fufilled to the letter...literally--- historically. Yet because of your personal prejudices contrary to what I have stated you arbitrarily declare that the satyrs are nothing more than shaggy goats AND that the dancing part was a metaphor. By what rule of hermenuetics do you justify taking such a position? Furthermore, why would all the rest of the prophecy be literal but that one point (satyrs) is not literal, but a metaphor? That is terribly inconsistent. You have some explaining to do.

 

[Calypsis4]

I have a question for all posting here.
What happened to the content of our TV viewing?
It started out with one very tame program called "Bewitched."
And then came "Charmed" with three witches, and a whole host of others from the "underworld" or spirit world, with their spells and incantations.
From then onward the fascination with the occult and paranormal has simply taken off and continues to multiply, with such horrendous programs with "Grimm" which I would not allow any child to watch. Space channel is full of them. There are all kinds of programs--some seem harmless like "Haven" but others are full of the occult and paranormal on an alarming scale. Whatever happened to simple TV viewing.
And all this is without sex and violence.

Very legitimate questions, Mr. Moderator. It isn't always easy to know just where to draw the line but that is why we need Holy Spirit discernment more than ever and the biggest reason why I started this thread.

 

[Calypsis4]

The word is also used to speak of actual goats as well. It is the context we use to help us define the intended meaning. The two I posted show we cannot, as has been done, negate a reference to demons, but at the same time we also point out other uses, and goat being used 24 times as the translation in the KJV, as opposed to only two references clearly designating demons.

One example would be...


Genesis 37:31

King James Version (KJV)

31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood;


...and interestingly enough it is "a kid," not "of the goats" which implements the use of sa`iyr.

In the passage in 2 Chronicles 11 it is very interesting to note that the Levites returned to Jerusalem that they might continue their Service, which was abolished by Jereboam. This passage helps to debunk the mythology of the "Ten Lost Tribes."

God bless.

I agree. But the context of Isaiah 13:21 demands a literal interpretation for there is no such thing as 'dancing goats'. Furthermore the prophecy of Isaiah 13 in context reveals that every other detail about the fall of Babylon has been literal and historical. So it is not right to arbitrarily declare that just one small part of that prophecy (satyrs dancing) is not literal and therefore a metaphor.

 

[InTheLight]

Don't even go there, friend. I taught English grammar years ago and I know when there is or is not more then one possible meaning to a sentence.

You said, "...you've just lost credibility." So by that statement how can one tell just how much credibility I have lost in your opinion? Such a statement without further information is impossible to discern. You did not make yourself clear.

It's clear. If I would have meant to say NO credibility I would have said so. What do you want me to say? You've lost SOME credibility? You've lost 37.4% of your credibility?

They are supernaturally transformed from the spirit realm into the physical one just like Satan did when He tried to tempt Jesus. And... just like the angels are sometimes transformed into the physical and appear to men on occasion;

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

So far as I know (and I haven't studied it as much as you have) demons always need a vessel to inhabit--a person or an animal--or in another case they left their natural habitat and came to earth but are now enchained (Jude). We see this with the swine that Jesus caused the legion of demons to inhabit and drown in the sea. We see this with people that are possessed. Demons ARE spirits and they need a body to possess. There is no instance in scripture when demons could form a body from their spirit (that I know of).

Yes, Satan can appear as an angel of light. But the Bible never says that Satan was transformed from a spirit to a body in the stories of the temptation of Jesus. So where in scripture do demons take on bodily form?

Secondly, your reply that the dancing satyrs of Isaiah 13:21 is sort of ridiculous. Why? Well, look at what the rest of the verse in context (vss 19-21) to the subject for it tells us:

¶ And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

Everything in that prophecy has been fufilled to the letter...literally--- historically. Yet because of your personal prejudices contrary to what I have stated you arbitrarily declare that the satyrs are nothing more than shaggy goats AND that the dancing part was a metaphor. By what rule of hermenuetics do you justify taking such a position?

Read any recent translation besides the KJV. They translate the word as "goat".

And wild goats will caper there. [NKJV]
there the wild goats will leap about. [NIV]
and shaggy goats will frolic there.[NASB]
and there wild goats will dance. [ESV]
and wild goats will leap about.[HCSB]
and wild goats will go there to dance. [NLT]

Furthermore, why would all the rest of the prophecy be literal but that one point (satyrs) is not literal, but a metaphor? That is terribly inconsistent. You have some explaining to do.

I said the "dancing" was a metaphor. Here's that reading comprehension problem again. I never said the satyr was a metaphor, I said it was a goat. This problem is exacerbated because you yourself said my statement was "the dancing part" was a metaphor, just in your previous post. Goats don't "dance". They leap, caper, romp, gambol, cavort, prance, frolic, hop, jump, or rollick. When you assign an anthropomorphic trait to them, then they can be said to "dance".

 

[Calypsis4]

InTheLight; It's clear. If I would have meant to say NO credibility I would have said so. What do you want me to say? You've lost SOME credibility? You've lost 37.4% of your credibility?

That truly would have helped, but you should have stopped right there and leave off the % stuff. But we are going to put an end to this confusion very shortly and I will indeed move on and leave behind this waste of time you created for both of us.

So far as I know (and I haven't studied it as much as you have) demons always need a vessel to inhabit--a person or an animal--or in another case they left their natural habitat and came to earth but are now enchained (Jude). We see this with the swine that Jesus caused the legion of demons to inhabit and drown in the sea. We see this with people that are possessed. Demons ARE spirits and they need a body to possess. There is no instance in scripture when demons could form a body from their spirit (that I know of).

Good grief. I gave you the scriptures and examples from the scriptures and you still don't get it. Well, O.K.

Yes, Satan can appear as an angel of light. But the Bible never says that Satan was transformed from a spirit to a body in the stories of the temptation of Jesus. So where in scripture do demons take on bodily form?

Jesus resurrection body, was a spirit body. Satan did the same thing at the temptation. Your rationalizations aren't helping you a bit.

Read any recent translation besides the KJV. They translate the word as "goat".

Dancing goats, right?:thumbsup: Just because you arbitrarily decide that that part of a prophecy that was and is historically fulfilled literally is a metaphor. THAT ONE AND ONLY PART...while all the rest is literal.And you call that logical? Consistent?

And wild goats will caper there. [NKJV]
there the wild goats will leap about. [NIV]
and shaggy goats will frolic there.[NASB]
and there wild goats will dance. [ESV]
and wild goats will leap about.[HCSB]
and wild goats will go there to dance. [NLT]

Oh, you mean from all those corrupt translations as done by eevan-jelly-cul thee-o-logians:thumbs: who are equally unbelieving on this matter as you are? Why not therefore appeal to the NWT of Jehovah's Witnesses? It is a dishonest conclusion based on fear of the reality that I have presented here. AND, I am by no means alone in that assessment.

You are nit-picking in order to escape the reality of this matter. But neither you nor anyone else will escape it.

I am going to remind you one last time that I have personally seen females attacked by demonic spirits.....sexually. One woman I helped bounced up and down off her bed repeatedly and involuntarily just as what was portrayed in that demonic movieThe Exorcist. She was forced into wild sexual gyrations right in front of myself, her husband, and one of my fellow counselors. It was among the ugliest and most horrendous things I have ever seen. So......I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU nor any other critic of this position. But the Bible is clear enough and it is clear you don't really like what it says...hence, the rationalizations.

We are done on this issue.

 

[Darrell C]

I agree. But the context of Isaiah 13:21 demands a literal interpretation for there is no such thing as 'dancing goats'. Furthermore the prophecy of Isaiah 13 in context reveals that every other detail about the fall of Babylon has been literal and historical. So it is not right to arbitrarily declare that just one small part of that prophecy (satyrs dancing) is not literal and therefore a metaphor.

While I would not be dogmatic and reject an interpretation that demons are referenced here, I would point out that we see the word translated as "dance" used here:


Psalm 29:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5 The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

6 He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.


Not so much a metaphor or figurative speech, simply maintaining a context that the land is uninhabited by people.

We see a similar statement here which parallels, I believe, what is in view in Isaiah:


Revelation 18:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


And there is no mistaking the intention of this verse.


God bless.

 

[Calypsis4]

While I would not be dogmatic and reject an interpretation that demons are referenced here, I would point out that we see the word translated as "dance" used here:


Psalm 29:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5 The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

6 He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.


Not so much a metaphor or figurative speech, simply maintaining a context that the land is uninhabited by people.

We see a similar statement here which parallels, I believe, what is in view in Isaiah:


Revelation 18:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

And there is no mistaking the intention of this verse.

God bless.

Thanks again. You make your points well.

 

[Darrell C]

Thanks again. You make your points well.

I appreciate that. We often feel that every discussion has to be adversarial, when in truth open discussion is a great way for us to draw from the ministry of the Spirit of God in our brethren. Because we are each unique and likely led in various ways and methods of study, when we compile that which God has shown us we become stronger and as a unified front we can go out there and kick in the Gates of Hell, lol.

Do you visit many forums, if you don't mind me asking?


God bless.

 

[InTheLight]

Jesus resurrection body, was a spirit body. Satan did the same thing at the temptation. Your rationalizations aren't helping you a bit.

Show me where Satan was said to have a spirit body. Chapter and verse.

Dancing goats, right?:thumbsup: Just because you arbitrarily decide that that part of a prophecy that was and is historically fulfilled literally is a metaphor. THAT ONE AND ONLY PART...while all the rest is literal.And you call that logical? Consistent?

Once again you are having trouble reading. The satyrs in Isaiah 13 are goats, literal goats, shaggy goats, alive and kicking. Their motions are described as being dancing, which is not literal. That's a human property being assigned to their actions.

Oh, you mean from all those corrupt translations as done by eevan-jelly-cul thee-o-logians:thumbs: who are equally unbelieving on this matter as you are? Why not therefore appeal to the NWT of Jehovah's Witnesses? It is a dishonest conclusion
You are nit-picking in order to escape the reality of this matter. But neither you nor anyone else will escape it. based on fear of the reality that I have presented here. AND, I am by no means alone in that assessment

Oh boy. KJV-only?

I am going to remind you one last time that I have personally seen females attacked by demonic spirits.....sexually. One woman I helped bounced up and down off her bed repeatedly and involuntarily just as what was portrayed in that demonic movieThe Exorcist. She was forced into wild sexual gyrations right in front of myself, her husband, and one of my fellow counselors. It was among the ugliest and most horrendous things I have ever seen. So......I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU nor any other critic of this position. But the Bible is clear enough and it is clear you don't really like what it says...hence, the rationalizations.

We are done on this issue.

No. So in the instance of this woman being raped, did the demon have a body, one that was visible?

 

[Calypsis4]

I appreciate that. We often feel that every discussion has to be adversarial, when in truth open discussion is a great way for us to draw from the ministry of the Spirit of God in our brethren. Because we are each unique and likely led in various ways and methods of study, when we compile that which God has shown us we become stronger and as a unified front we can go out there and kick in the Gates of Hell, lol.

Do you visit many forums, if you don't mind me asking?

God bless.

I am currently a member of Online Baptist and Evolution Fairytale Fourm where I have regularly posted since 2009. What is so interesting is that if the critics here had known what I have been posting in the last few years they could just as easily conclude that I am 'obsessed' with the creation vs evolution issue or the Pre-trib, Pre-mill issue.

Oh, well. That goes with the territory I suppose.:godisgood:

Best wishes and God bless you.

 

[Calypsis4]

InTheLight; Show me where Satan was said to have a spirit body.

Didn't I tell you that we were finished with this? You apparently don't respect the wishes of those who differ with your prejudices, do you? I must have touched a sensitive nerve or something, but I assure you this is the last you have heard from me on this subject.


I erased what I had posted for it is useless to try to convince someone who doesn't want the real truth to begin with.

 

[Revmitchell]

Typical Charismatic non sense if you do not agree with them or sit at their feet to learn they dismiss you.

 

[DHK]

Show me where Satan was said to have a spirit body. Chapter and verse.

In order to have a body he must possess it.
In the NT he entered into Judas and then used Judas for his own devious means.
In the future he will enter into that man who will be the Antichrist.

The man in the Gadarenes was called "Legion" for he had many demons (Mark 5:9).
When Jesus cast the demons out they went into a nearby heard of swine. The swine went mad and ran headlong off of a cliff. Mark 9:13 says that the number of swine were 2,000. There could have been as many as 2,000 demons. Robertson says that a full legion of soldiers is about 6,000. Either way it was a lot of demons that inhabited that man, and then went and inhabited those swine.

 

[InTheLight]

Typical Charismatic non sense if you do not agree with them or sit at their feet to learn they dismiss you.

A simple verse is all I asked. I re-read all 3 instances in the Bible where Jesus was tempted and I didn't see any mention of Satan being a spirit. Maybe those verses have been removed from the newer translations? Dunno...

 

[PreachTony]

Just for clarification, when Isaiah wrote about 'satyrs,' he was writing about the demon satyrs, even though other translations describe the same verse using goats or wild goats...


Does that mean that when Isaiah wrote about 'unicorns' that he was writing about the actual mythical creature?

 

[Calypsis4]

DHK; In order to have a body he must possess it.
In the NT he entered into Judas and then used Judas for his own devious means.
In the future he will enter into that man who will be the Antichrist.

The man in the Gadarenes was called "Legion" for he had many demons (Mark 5:9).
When Jesus cast the demons out they went into a nearby heard of swine. The swine went mad and ran headlong off of a cliff. Mark 9:13 says that the number of swine were 2,000. There could have been as many as 2,000 demons. Robertson says that a full legion of soldiers is about 6,000. Either way it was a lot of demons that inhabited that man, and then went and inhabited those swine.

Let me take that a step further, dear friend. Some people were (and are today) the offspring of devils. Judas was. Evidence:


Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? John 6:70

διάβολος diabolos, dee-ab'-ol-os

from 1225; a traducer; specially, Satan (compare 7854):--false accuser, devil, slanderer.

I would like to know why that statement is anything less than literal in light of the biblical fact that Judas is the only other character in the entire Bible besides the Antichrist himself that is referred to as 'the son of perdition'?

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I think that Antichrist, being the counterfeit and exact opposite to Jesus Christ will likewise have a miraculous birth; with a human mother but not a human father: Satan. What biblical reason would prevent this from being true?

 

[Calypsis4]

Just for clarification, when Isaiah wrote about 'satyrs,' he was writing about the demon satyrs, even though other translations describe the same verse using goats or wild goats...


Does that mean that when Isaiah wrote about 'unicorns' that he was writing about the actual mythical creature?

How do you know that they were mythical creatures?

 

[Darrell C]

I am currently a member of Online Baptist and Evolution Fairytale Fourm where I have regularly posted since 2009. What is so interesting is that if the critics here had known what I have been posting in the last few years they could just as easily conclude that I am 'obsessed' with the creation vs evolution issue or the Pre-trib, Pre-mill issue.

Oh, well. That goes with the territory I suppose.:godisgood:

Best wishes and God bless you.

Well, you will find that some, since they are not really sure about what it is they believe, take offense when someone presumes to think he does, lol.

Best to keep it doctrinal, and you will see the peanut gallery will eventually run back into the bushes.

Thanks for the tip, I may check those out as a new campaign effort. Many atheists there (primarily Evolution Fairytale Forum)? That name is a goad to be sure to evolutionists, theistic or no.


God bless.

 

[Calypsis4]

A simple verse is all I asked. I re-read all 3 instances in the Bible where Jesus was tempted and I didn't see any mention of Satan being a spirit. Maybe those verses have been removed from the newer translations? Dunno...

I gave you scripture and you deliberately twisted it and you dissed the classic definition from Strongs. I described to you in some details what I and my fellow counselors have experienced and you don't accept that either.

So why continue to discuss things with someone who rationalizes away the truth no matter what? Why waste all the time and effort to persuade anyone who only wishes to deny a reality they don't like?

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?John 6:70