Darby = Dispensationalism

[OldRegular]

When Saul got saved was he a Jew or a Christian?

Before Saul got saved he was a Jew who persecuted Christians. He stood by while Stephen was murdered, much as the Muslims do Christians today. Paul speaks of himself after he was saved, became a Christian:

1 Corinthians 15:9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 

[revmwc]

And as the inspired writer of Scripture, the Apostle Paul says, the seed who inherited the promise was Jesus Christ. So according to Paul you are flat wrong!

He also say what we see here:

Romans Where in this inspired Scripture am I wrong about Paul's teaching?

Romans 11:1-2, "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying"

He says God has not cast away His people um that would be Israel. The people whom He foreknew, what do He foreknow, that they would reject Jesus as Messiah, that they would go into two captivities, that they would rebel and not enter the land for 40 years.

 

[DHK]

Why do you call Israel, believing or unbelieving, the Elect of GOD but demonize those who believe in the Doctrine of Sovereign Election of all who are the redeemed of Jesus Christ?

I believe in the Sovereignty of God.
I believe in election; the Bible teaches it.
The Bible teaches that there is a nation called Israel. They currently don't believe in the Messiah, we call Christ. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul prayed for their salvation. In Romans 10:1-5 Paul again prayed for their salvation. If this nation of Israel in its unsaved state did not exist then Paul was a raving lunatic.
Which is it?
Is Paul the author of 13 books of our Scriptures a raving lunatic not knowing what he believes because you are right and Paul is mad?
Or does he have a Jewish heritage, and in spite of that heritage was saved by believing in the Messiah and went on to be a vessel used of God? You tell me.

 

[revmwc]

Before Saul got saved he was a Jew who persecuted Christians. He stood by while Stephen was murdered, much as the Muslims do Christians today. Paul speaks of himself after he was saved, became a Christian:

1 Corinthians 15:9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

He says nothing about not still being a Jew in that passage, just that He is not worthy because as an unbeliever in Christ and zealous he persecuted, the church. Th fact that he was Jew never changed:
Romans 11:1-2, "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying"

 

[DHK]

Before Saul got saved he was a Jew who persecuted Christians. He stood by while Stephen was murdered, much as the Muslims do Christians today. Paul speaks of himself after he was saved, became a Christian:

1 Corinthians 15:9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

And after he got saved what did he say?
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
He went on to delineate three groups of people in this world:
1. the Jews.
2. the Gentiles.
3. the church of God.

Why are there three and only three groups mentioned in this verse?

 

[OldRegular]

He also say what we see here:

Romans Where in this inspired Scripture am I wrong about Paul's teaching?

Romans 11:1-2, "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying"

He says God has not cast away His people um that would be Israel. The people whom He foreknew, what do He foreknow, that they would reject Jesus as Messiah, that they would go into two captivities, that they would rebel and not enter the land for 40 years.

NO! He does not say "GOD has not cast away HIS people." Paul says:

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

The Apostle Paul was one of GOD's Elect out of Israel. So were all the Apostles except Judas and HIS brother James. And then there were as many as 500 Elect from Israel who saw HIM. But they were the Elect out of Israel.

You really need to read Scripture, not look for something you think proves you are correct.

 

[revmwc]

NO! He does not say "GOD has not cast away HIS people." Paul says:

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

The Apostle Paul was one of GOD's Elect out of Israel. So were all the Apostles except Judas and HIS brother James. And then there were as many as 500 Elect from Israel who saw HIM. But they were the Elect out of Israel.

You really need to read Scripture, not look for something you think proves you are correct.

So you don't believe He foreknew Abraham and his seed that HE made the promises too? Yo believe god didn't foreknow they would reject the Messiah? Why did He give Daniel the words then will Messiah be cutoff if He didn't foreknow the choice Israel would make. God in His Sovereignty is Omniscient and He made the Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their seed would inherit the Land of Promise forever that is as long as time on earth for man continues. But you believe God didn't foreknow Israel, He Foreknew everyone who has been saved and He foreknew who would reject the Gospel. He knew it all along and He made the plan for man's salvation before time began.


So He foreknew the children of Israel and that is what Paul is saying.

 

[Darrell C]

You are not answering the question!

Neither are you:

Where exactly is the demonization?

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

I believe in the Sovereignty of God.
I believe in election; the Bible teaches it.
The Bible teaches that there is a nation called Israel. They currently don't believe in the Messiah, we call Christ. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul prayed for their salvation. In Romans 10:1-5 Paul again prayed for their salvation. If this nation of Israel in its unsaved state did not exist then Paul was a raving lunatic.
Which is it?
Is Paul the author of 13 books of our Scriptures a raving lunatic not knowing what he believes because you are right and Paul is mad?
Or does he have a Jewish heritage, and in spite of that heritage was saved by believing in the Messiah and went on to be a vessel used of God? You tell me.

I believe what Paul wrote. Paul made a crucial distinction between national/ethnic Israel and Elect Israel!

 

[DHK]

I believe what Paul wrote. Paul made a crucial between national/ethnic Israel and Elect Israel!

Really? So was Paul praying for the "apostles," such as Peter and John to be saved? They were the elect. (That is an absurdity)
Or was Paul praying for the nation of Israel--his own people, the Sanhedrin which he had been a part of before he got saved--those that gave the command to crucify him. Are those the ones that he is praying for--the actual nation of Israel?

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--Who was given the Law? Just a few? Or the entire nation?

 

[OldRegular]

So you don't believe He foreknew Abraham and his seed that HE made the promises too? Yo believe god didn't foreknow they would reject the Messiah? Why did He give Daniel the words then will Messiah be cutoff if He didn't foreknow the choice Israel would make. God in His Sovereignty is Omniscient and He made the Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their seed would inherit the Land of Promise forever that is as long as time on earth for man continues. But you believe God didn't foreknow Israel, He Foreknew everyone who has been saved and He foreknew who would reject the Gospel. He knew it all along and He made the plan for man's salvation before time began.


So He foreknew the children of Israel and that is what Paul is saying.

Depends on what you mean by foreknew.

 

[OldRegular]

And after he got saved what did he say?
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
He went on to delineate three groups of people in this world:
1. the Jews.
2. the Gentiles.
3. the church of God.

Why are there three and only three groups mentioned in this verse?

You are not telling me anything I don't know other than I don't know what your point is!

 

[OldRegular]

Really? So was Paul praying for the "apostles," such as Peter and John to be saved? They were the elect. (That is an absurdity)
Or was Paul praying for the nation of Israel--his own people, the Sanhedrin which he had been a part of before he got saved--those that gave the command to crucify him. Are those the ones that he is praying for--the actual nation of Israel?

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
--Who was given the Law? Just a few? Or the entire nation?

The Apostles Peter and John were Jews and they were saved in time before the Apostle Paul.

The nation was given the Law! That really has nothing to do with the Elect of Israel such as the 7000 GOD told Elijah had not bowed the knee to Baal! GOD through the Apostle Paul told us that by the deeds of the Law no flesh would be justified in the sight of GOD, or words to that effect.

 

[thomas15]

So you admit that GOD deals with people through Covenants.

You be the cowboy. Round em up.

 

[DHK]

You are not telling me anything I don't know other than I don't know what your point is!

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Paul is a Jewish convert, part of the church.
The church is made of Jewish and Gentile converts.
Gentiles are simply unsaved pagans.
The Jews were God's elect, now have rejected the Messiah, but will again turn to their Messiah as a nation. God's covenant with them is not fulfilled in the church but is an everlasting covenant to them, and them alone. Thus the Millennial Kingdom.
The "church" is different than Israel, and Paul differentiates them right here, and in many other places.
He prays for them, as a nation to get saved--Israelites who have received the law and the promises of God. This is ethnic Israel that Paul is praying for. It still exists to this day.

 

[OldRegular]

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Paul is a Jewish convert, part of the church.
The church is made of Jewish and Gentile converts.
Gentiles are simply unsaved pagans.
The Jews were God's elect, now have rejected the Messiah, but will again turn to their Messiah as a nation. God's covenant with them is not fulfilled in the church but is an everlasting covenant to them, and them alone. Thus the Millennial Kingdom.
The "church" is different than Israel, and Paul differentiates them right here, and in many other places.
He prays for them, as a nation to get saved--Israelites who have received the law and the promises of God. This is ethnic Israel that Paul is praying for. It still exists to this day.

If Gentiles are unsaved pagans what are unsaved Jews?

 

[revmwc]

If Gentiles are unsaved pagans what are unsaved Jews?

Jews of the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The leaders of Jesus' time were they Jews or Pagans?

 

[thomas15]

The reformed/covenant/replacement crowd aught to consider what the Lord tells the Church in Ephesus (you know, let him who has an ear listen). The Bible leaves no question or doubt that the Lord considers those in Ephesus are saved and serving as they should. But yet Jesus finds fault in some aspect of their faith and threatens judgement if they don't change (Rev 2:1-7). But somehow the covenant crowd feels that they are protected against this sort of thing. Special I guess.

And yet the above mentioned crowd claims OT covenants as their own because of the judgements against the Jews forgetting that all have sinned.

The big question that the reformers tackled revolved around the authority of the Bible vs. the authority of the theologians. They did not tackle the questions of OT covenants and the kingdom. There is very little meaningful difference between the Roman Catholic definition of this and the Reformed except to strip the Catholic theologians from their ability to decide who enters this kingdom.

There seems to be a difference between a covenant and a promise or reward, biblically speaking. The Bible indicates that if you confess you sins and place your faith and trust in the shed blood of Christ you will be saved. Simple as that. Nothing about a revised "spiritual kingdom" to replace the one promised to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac through Jacob.

 

[OldRegular]

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Paul is a Jewish convert, part of the church.
The church is made of Jewish and Gentile converts.
Gentiles are simply unsaved pagans.
The Jews were God's elect, now have rejected the Messiah, but will again turn to their Messiah as a nation. God's covenant with them is not fulfilled in the church but is an everlasting covenant to them, and them alone. Thus the Millennial Kingdom.
The "church" is different than Israel, and Paul differentiates them right here, and in many other places.
He prays for them, as a nation to get saved--Israelites who have received the law and the promises of God. This is ethnic Israel that Paul is praying for. It still exists to this day.

Just who constitutes ethnic Israel? DNA a perfect match with Jacob {Israel} or what?

 

[OldRegular]

Jews of the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The leaders of Jesus' time were they Jews or Pagans?

They were murderers of Jesus Christ so you decide!