Who owns the earth?

[OldRegular]

Let me catch you up. I said the book or scroll in Revelation 5 is a book or scroll of redemption as the Jews practiced when a piece of property, the scroll was rolled and sealed with 7 seals. It contained the terms of redemption, the redemption price if you will for that property and Christ opens the seals for the one for the earth.

Christ opens the scroll or book one seal at a time and God's wrath is poured out in the way of horsemen, plagues, war and death. thus the redemption price. The was who is the payment made to at first, then it escalated to who owns the earth. To the first part I asked this question and never received an answer, who was the payment of man's sin paid too? Believers receive the benefits of the Payment Christ made for sin. That is who the payment for the redemption of the earth will be paid. Believers will receive the benefit of the payment to redeem the earth. Satan will get the full brunt of Gods wrath poured out as will the inhabitants of the earth in the Tribulation. Thus the church will not go through that time but will be snatched out and that is what started this whole thing.

What started the whole thing was your continued insistence that the Great Seven Year Tribulation will redeem/regenerate the earth or words to that effect. Apparently you believe Jesus Christ did not mean it when HE said: "It is Finished!"

 

[RLBosley]

Let me catch you up. I said the book or scroll in Revelation 5 is a book or scroll of redemption as the Jews practiced when a piece of property, the scroll was rolled and sealed with 7 seals. It contained the terms of redemption, the redemption price if you will for that property and Christ opens the seals for the one for the earth.

Christ opens the scroll or book one seal at a time and God's wrath is poured out in the way of horsemen, plagues, war and death. thus the redemption price. The was who is the payment made to at first, then it escalated to who owns the earth. To the first part I asked this question and never received an answer, who was the payment of man's sin paid too? Believers receive the benefits of the Payment Christ made for sin. That is who the payment for the redemption of the earth will be paid. Believers will receive the benefit of the payment to redeem the earth. Satan will get the full brunt of Gods wrath poured out as will the inhabitants of the earth in the Tribulation. Thus the church will not go through that time but will be snatched out and that is what started this whole thing.

Right... well good luck proving any of that.

As for your question of who was the payment of sin paid to. Our debt was to God and thus it was paid to God.

 

[blessedwife318]

Just how did Adam mortgage the earth to Satan when Adam sid not own the earth? That sounds like Word of Faith heresy to me.

We have definitely entered into WOF territory.

 

[revmwc]

Let me interject something regarding this point specifically. Do you believe Assyria, when it invaded Israel, was Satan's weapon or God's? Same question regarding Babylon and the Southern Kingdom.

If you mean for the first captivity it was God who sent them in. Just as God sent Israel to remove all the peoples in Canaan.

But there are those who like ISIS and the groups today that are attacking Christians and beheading them are they of God or of satan?

Ephesians 6:11-13,
11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Are not all these the wiles of satan and he controls many countries and terrorist organizations.

 

[RLBosley]

If you mean for the first captivity it was God who sent them in. Just as God sent Israel to remove all the peoples in Canaan.

But there are those who like ISIS and the groups today that are attacking Christians and beheading them are they of God or of satan?

Ephesians 6:11-13,
11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Are not all these the wiles of satan and he controls many countries and terrorist organizations.

So, your argument essentially is that God was sovereign over Assyria's invasion of Israel and the slaughter of God's covenant people in the Old Testament, but somehow in modern times he isn't still sovereign over it? Or was God only sovereign over the invasion leading to captivity?

And no, to understand the wickedness of men in slaughtering other people as the "wiles of Satan" is a gross misapplication of the text. As he says, the war against Satan is not flesh and blood.

 

[RLBosley]

We have definitely entered into WOF territory.

Seems like it.

 

[revmwc]

Here I disagree. I have not found Scripture to indicate that there is a debt owed to Satan. Paul speaks of a "debt," but it was a debt on our behalf owed God.

The book in Revelation 5 the seven sealed scroll or book. It is like the book of redemption used by the Israelites to redeem property, thus Christ is unsealing the scroll of redemption for the earth. The redemption price, God's wrath poured out just as He poured His wrath out on Pharaoh for not letting the people go. The curse upon the earth is in full effect today and that curse is the effect of the fall of man and his lose of dominion over the earth, who has dominion?

 

[Jerome]

Uh oh:

"It expresses also the wretched condition of men, on whose heads fall the darts of Satan, who rules in the air, and holds the world in subjection under his feet, till Christ appear as a Deliverer." —John Calvin, commentary on Luke 10:18

 

[blessedwife318]

If you mean for the first captivity it was God who sent them in. Just as God sent Israel to remove all the peoples in Canaan.

But there are those who like ISIS and the groups today that are attacking Christians and beheading them are they of God or of satan?

Ephesians 6:11-13,
11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Are not all these the wiles of satan and he controls many countries and terrorist organizations.

Your arguing that Satan is using physical means, ISIS for example, to wage war against Christians, and then use the passage that says that our struggle is Spiritual to back it up?

I would reference Joseph, what they meant for evil God uses for good.

 

[revmwc]

Who set the terms? And you really think God can't crush Satan at any time. Satan is not equal to God. You are making Satan way to powerful.
Yes I believe God is in control of the world and everything that happens. It would be really depressing to think that God is just up in heaven wringing His hands as He watches the earth helplessly descend into turmoil.

Well since it is God's wrath I would think He set the terms. Who set the Terms for man's redemption?

God can crush satan anytime He chooses. Satan is not equal to god and this in no way makes him equal with God.

Satan only has the authority to do what God allows him to do. That is not the point. That may be part of the problem.

Satan is allowed to do only what God allows.

The point of the earth needing redemption is that it is under the curse of the fall of Adam. Adam lost dominion if that is the term maybe it would be better to use another word, but it is like Adam mortgage the dominion when he sinned. The terms of the earths redemption are judgment and that leads to God's wrath being poured out upon the earth. That leads to satan being confined to earth at the 3 1/2 year point of the Tribulation. The point really is that the Tribulation is the period of the Scroll of the Redemption of the Earth being unsealed and God pouring His judgment out to reclaim man's lost dominion of creation.

 

[Revmitchell]

Satan is called the ruler of this world. It is implied in the temptation of Christ that he has the power to actually give what he promised should Jesus choose to avoid the Cross. So in a way…yes, Satan owns the earth

This is in error. It ignores the sovereignty of God. When wold is used in the sense of Satan it is only meant in regard to Satan's influence on people. Satan could not give to God what God created and is sovereign over.

 

[blessedwife318]

Lovely Lady, You have a wonderful way of presenting the truth. I could not keep myself from laughing when I read your response. If we serve a GOD who is worried about Satan we are of all people most miserable.

I recall hearing a pastor from Canada remark on the radio regarding the angst of some Christians over the election of Bill Clinton. He said "GOD has no sweat on HIS forehead" and HE is not wringing HIS Hands now.

Thank you. I have been told that I'm very matter of a fact, but then you combine that with my snarky sense of humor, gives me a unique way of saying things.

 

[Revmitchell]

God owns everything but the question is really, who controls the Earth or has possession according to the Bible, who has dominion. Adam lost dominion. Adam mortgaged the Earth to satan. Maybe that is where the confusion is

I disagree. There is nothing in scripture to indicate Adam "mortgaged" the earth to Satan. Man, Satan, and the earth were all cursed at the same time. Adam still had to work the ground only now it is much harder.

 

[revmwc]

Just how did Adam mortgage the earth to Satan when Adam sid not own the earth? That sounds like Word of Faith heresy to me.

The heretical teachings of the Word of Faith Movement are summarized in the Kingdom of the Cults, revised, page 497ff. Below is the teaching regarding the fall!



You need to read Job 38-41 and then like Job repent in dust cloth and ashes!



You still spouting that heretical nonsense. DHK and blessedwife318 have already discredited that nonsense! Jesus Christ has already paid the price for the redemption of everything that will be redeemed!

Who or what is Word of Faith? I know nothing of this and don't really sound like anything I want to read.

He mortgaged it when he sinned, the curse was placed upon the earth at that point, just as man was redeemed form the curse with the Blood of Christ, the earth must also be reddemed from the curse that was placed upon it, we see that it is when the Kingdom comes in Revelation 20. Satan gained dominion and hasn't lost it. So bad was his dominion in that early time God had to bring the judgment of the flood.

God will bring final wrath upon the earth in the Tribulation, He will redeem the earth, through judgment.

 

[Revmitchell]

He mortgaged it when he sinned,

Scripture please?

 

[blessedwife318]

Well since it is God's wrath I would think He set the terms. Who set the Terms for man's redemption?

So Satan owns it, but God gets to set the terms to buy it back from Satan. The Seller lets the buyer set terms, I may have to try setting the terms next time I try to buy something and see how that works.

God can crush satan anytime He chooses. Satan is not equal to god and this in no way makes him equal with God.

Satan only has the authority to do what God allows him to do. That is not the point. That may be part of the problem.

Satan is allowed to do only what God allows.

And yet that is the only logical conclusion of saying that Satan owns the earth and God has to buy it back. You are putting Satan on equal footing, or maybe even higher footing, since you seem to think God can't do anything in this world at the moment since Satan is the owner.

The point of the earth needing redemption is that it is under the curse of the fall of Adam. Adam lost dominion if that is the term maybe it would be better to use another word, but it is like Adam mortgage the dominion when he sinned. The terms of the earths redemption are judgment and that leads to God's wrath being poured out upon the earth. That leads to satan being confined to earth at the 3 1/2 year point of the Tribulation. The point really is that the Tribulation is the period of the Scroll of the Redemption of the Earth being unsealed and God pouring His judgment out to reclaim man's lost dominion of creation.

Circular reasoning
We know that Adam lost dominion because of the Scroll in Revelation and the Scroll is in Revelation because Adam lost dominion.:BangHead:

 

[revmwc]

What started the whole thing was your continued insistence that the Great Seven Year Tribulation will redeem/regenerate the earth or words to that effect. Apparently you believe Jesus Christ did not mean it when HE said: "It is Finished!"

It is Finished Christ finished it. His blood became the Propitiation for the sins of all mankind, saved or unsaved. That is not the issue here. If as you say that included the earth and if as you have said in other post we are in the Kingdom then we should see this occuring:

Isaiah 11:1-12,
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Jesus as the Stem of Jesse came forth but look at next verses

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins."

He hasn't reigned over the earth yet and finally we see the redeemed earth,

6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Notice here we see nature for lack of a better word back in Pre-Fall state it has been redeemed. It is no longer under the curse. If the cross covered that then we should see nature at peace, instead satan is still the prince and power of the air and still working evil upon the earth.

Where as those who are believers in Christ have been freed from the bondage of sin, that is the curse of sin. Every one who places their faith in Him are new creatures we can't say that about the animals on the earth not yet, but we will see it in the 1000 year reign of Christ.


The last tidbit, who is found worthy, like the kinsman redeemer to open the 7 sealed book in revelation? Jesus why because He was the perfect God-man who went to the cross. He is able to open the book of the redemption of the earth and pay the price.

 

[blessedwife318]

This is in error. It ignores the sovereignty of God. When wold is used in the sense of Satan it is only meant in regard to Satan's influence on people. Satan could not give to God what God created and is sovereign over.

Agreed, its sad that this is not more obvious.

 

[Revmitchell]

Agreed, its sad that this is not more obvious.

Honestly, the average person in the pew would most likely hear something like "Adam mortgaged the earth when he sinned" and it would not raise one red flag. I would not allow it to be taught in my church. It is a very odd statement with no scripture to support it.

 

[revmwc]

So, your argument essentially is that God was sovereign over Assyria's invasion of Israel and the slaughter of God's covenant people in the Old Testament, but somehow in modern times he isn't still sovereign over it? Or was God only sovereign over the invasion leading to captivity?

And no, to understand the wickedness of men in slaughtering other people as the "wiles of Satan" is a gross misapplication of the text. As he says, the war against Satan is not flesh and blood.

God is soveriegn and allows satan to accomplish certain things. He allowed him to test Job but wouldn't allow him to kill Job. He allowed satan to sift the apostles the night of Jesus' arrest. He allows him to influence and demons to possess certain people. God allows satan to do all of that. He allows satan to be the prince and power of the air at this time.

Satan's wiles are listed, principalities, powers and rulers of darkness. that means they have effects on nations and rulers as well as the occult.

We are battling that.

God will allow the unholy trinity to come to power however, satan will influence the second and third part of that unholy trinity. Which in turn will control the armies of the world in the tribulation.