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Where is satans Kingdom and is it Still in force?

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
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No. as a matter of fact I can direct you to forums where the Post-Trib view is presented in a very convincing way.



So far Progressive Dispensationaslists have best reconciled he [sic] inconsistencies that view holds.[/QUOTE]

Well good to know that you think other views are valid to a point.

Unfortunately, the reconciliation has issues, such as a localized Tribulation in the Middle East, the rest of the world not being affected, and unbelievers entering into the Millennial Kingdom.

Well I will give you this you are slightly more read then I am, as I have never heard of a pre-mill view that also localizes the Tribulation to the middle east.

But to be fair it should be made clear that this is only the views presented by those Progressive Dispensationals I have spoken with. I have not looked to see if there is a certified source or representative of that group.
Good of you to be fair to this group.




I am being no different than I was before, lol. I was impressed by how well you took the "Oh, Pastor preaching" jab, lol. Still laughing about that.
Your tone came off as quite different in your last post to me. But this one I felt was more civil. That is the curse of this medium is that tone can and does get lost in translation. I will give you the benefit of the doubt however.
I don't remember the "Oh Pastor preaching jab, although I'm glad to see you admit to taking jabs.

Thanks, you made me lose my focus...now where was I..
.

Mission accomplished



Again, it was supposed to be humor.

I made it clear in what I said:

See above about tone.


The response:
Just leaving this in so you don't accuse me of miss quoting you.


To be quite honest, I could care less about what your pastor or church believe or hold to, but it is revealing to find out that you sit under an a-mil pastor.
Fair enough


Odd you wouldn't mention that to me before, when you were stating you were a pre-millennial. Now you act as though you've just had an earth-shattering epiphany and have decided all at once to become amil.

I don't see any change.

That is your perogative


And that is relevant to...?
Again just leaving this for the sake of not misquoting you.

My own fellowship is independent and the worst I think my Pastor deals with is the Deacons, and the Doctrine he preaches is clearly an independent Doctrine outside of those influences he has had in his walk, his dad being the previous pastor being one of those, I would assume, and he mentions others he is fond of as well. Spurgeon being near the top of the list.
I do enjoy Spurgeon, on of my favorite Preachers to read.




Like those pre-tribbers who are the stuff of ridicule, right? Will you deny nce [sic] again you intended any insult towards those that embrace the doctrine?
Yes I will deny that, because as I said above tone is hard to portray over this medium, but it is your prerogative if you choose to accept that or not.




We drive a bit over 30 minutes, depending on how fast I drive, lol. Worth the trip.
As do we.



If you mean the SBC Statement, I already commented on that: they are a little broad in their statement. I did find a link where they present five different views of the same subject (eschatologically oriented) so what you said about them fit perfectly with what I saw.
I would be curious as to which one you were looking at, because I have looked at the Baptist Faith and Message, and all its changes and it has gotten tighter on issues as the years go. But this is kind of off topic

There is just no clear statement, and seeing that your own church is amil, it makes one wonder if there is any organization at all, as is suggest by their name.
From what I understand, the organization really comes down to the Co-Op and their Seminaries. There is definitely some rivalry between the different Seminaries especially as Reformed theology has had a resurgence in the SBC and a couple Seminaries have embraced Reformed theology. It is creating a bit of a civil war if you will but that is off topic just a bit.

As I said, every SBC fellowship I ever attended was premillennial, but that might be an issue of locale.
True enough



I don't. Doesn't mean I can't comment on them. I comment on ORs organization all the time. lol
Fair enough



The pre-trib view is not a "camp," in itself, though people like OR and you like to cast it as one.

Camp, view, idea... take your pick.

Your Church shows that perfectly, don't you think? Any flavor of eschatology is okay...

'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity'

What that shows is that "organization" is not very organized, but scattered in doctrine, with no dogmatic statement on this issue, anyway, and that is about all I care to know about them
Fair enough

This is one reason the Catholic Church appeals to some people, who also do not have a strong focus on personal knowledge of Scripture, but they appreciate the consistency of that organization.

Okay...?


I have not seen that to be the case. Now that I know you attend an amil church it makes perfect sense. That you would hide that to some extent is questionable.
I must have missed the requirement of posting all about our churches doctrinal statements before posting here.

And I can believe you have re-examined them.
Well I appreciate that admission.




You take it like a personal slam. That's not the case. You want to believe Christ returned in fulfillment of prophecy in the first century...have at it. I think you do your antagonists a disservice by not being able to be open about your beliefs. I think you do yourself the greatest disservice because we test what we believe by examining them with others, who will be more than happy to debate with you.

I do not believe that Christ has returned already, anymore then you do. I think you are thinking of post-trib view.
Well I am talking to you so not sure what disservice you think I am doing.

As I am also confirming.
Glad to see you admit that you are confirming my views of this board.

Continued...
Ok
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not true. I tried to lax up on you after seeing you were a pretty good sport.

Well you can see my previous post in response to you about tone and this medium.

But this is something which I am afraid you are just going to get offended about, and take personal. If that's the case, then I will let you get back to your normal routine. Which is what I am going to do anyway.
I'm not offended, amused. I never take things said online personally. But I will call people on how their tone is perceived from time to time but again I will also admit that tone is hard judge in this medium.



No.

I am not a pre-trib pre-mil, lol, I am a Christian Bible Student who happens to be premillennial, futurist, and Pre-Trib.

I'm sorry your not happy ;)
Ok seriously, are you saying that only pre-mill, futurist, pretrib are Christian Bible Students?
Although maybe since that is your self given title I can just shorten it to CBS, Pre-mill, Pre-trib. I feel like futurist is implied in the pre-mill, pre-trib view, (with the exception of the 7 churches listed in Revelation. Every camp sees to take a more historicist view of them to some degree or another.)

I'm not sure you see the distinction.
You may be surprised.





How about what position you took in regards to the Rapture? You said, if I remember correctly, you were premillennial, then offered nothing else.
Yes but I did acknowledge your question and I have admitted on multiple times that I have chosen to keep that to myself. Since you seem so curious about it and its a moot point now I will say I was a very unique blend based on what I saw in the Bible while trying to stick with the dispensational viewpoint as the only hermeneutic I knew. Best way to describe it would be pre-wrath, but not in the Rosenthal sense. I have never met anyone that I agreed with on this point, which meant that if I ever talked about it I was surrounded on all sides by antagonist and that is just not a fun spot to be in.


How about "Who populates the Kingdom?" How long was it before you finally answered that? And if I remember correctly, I limited my interaction with you to a response to that question and perhaps a few snide remarks, as you put it, lol.

I answered that as soon as I had an opportunity on my computer to answer it. You are not a fan of my phone responses, which does limit what I can do quickly, so I have tried to wait until I have the computer to responded to you. And I never said snide, I said Snarky. And I think you know how quickly questions can get buried when a thread is hot and people are piling on.

How about your potshot in Iconoclast's second thread, will you answer that?
I answered within 10 hours of your posting. This response to me was 11 hours. You posted that response at 11 pm my time, so I think giving people a chance to sleep and then go to church is only fair, unless you are going to insist on a time limit but then again I responded to that faster then you did to my response in this tread so I don't think you really want to go there.

Was I making fun of someone's spelling, as you assumed?

I think she was collateral damage in your argument with Icon. While I will admit I'm not the best speller in the world, so this probably means nothing, I didn't notice her mistake until you pointed it out.

Or pointing out the inconsistency of his claim to be quoting word for word? The spelling was the indicator, and I made that clear. Or did you bother to check. Or does it even matter?
I did check and I thought it was ridiculous. I have fixed people's spelling in their post, although I have refrained on your, because I figure if I catch it with my bad spelling, then I should just fix it. This is not a college paper where it is expected to leave things as they are, but an informal setting where that is ok. I also do edit people's post since I often only want to respond to one part of what they are saying. The post would get insanely long if every response required the quoting of the previous poster in its entirety.
I also noticed that you have gotten on people for not quoting properly with the link to their OP, but you had no problem with revmac not linking where he was quoting from. That does not seem very consistent for you. Now I'm sure you will point out that I'm not quoting properly but I don't know how you get every quote when you break it up like this to go back to the OP and I figure as long as my first quote can go back to the OP people can look at it if they so choose.

What I have noticed is that you seem to be more apt to engage and answer questions now. Guess snide remarks have their place after all, eh?
Or I'm just in a different state of mind and have a little bit more access to the computer.

Pity it has to be this kind of thing.
Pity you feel the need to make self admitted 'snide' comments.



You did jump in, or at least...butt in. That was all I noticed about you in the Rapture threads. You were one of the ones who were making snide comments and disrupting discussion. And that is what OR does in every thread. That was the purpose of "How many Resurrections in Revelation," in which the OP stipulated only the Book of Revelation was to be examined, because it was the three resurrections listed in that Book I wanted to see what he did with.
I guess I missed where you have to have a engraved invite to join threads.
Also considering how you hijacked Judith's thread I feel like this is the pot calling the kettle black.

The result? Same as every thread. First it's Darby Darby Darby, and then here come the other cheerleaders making statements like yours, the doctrine is the stuff of ridicule. That's how he perpetuates his own error, because he refuses to answer simple questions like "how many resurrections" which he feels he answered yet he would not acknowledge the other two. You play a part in that error, whether you admit it or not. You are not helping him, you are not helping yourself. If you are going to be part of a Christian Doctrine Discussion Forum, it might be a good idea to work some discussion and doctrine into the mix once in a while
.
Welcome to the Internet. I will be honest I'm here for entertainment, not expecting to have any wonderful Doctrinal Discussions. There are other forums I am on that are much more serious that I use for learning and sharpening. As I told you this is the forum outside my comfort zone. Considering how overwhelmingly non-cal this forum is, I feel this is more seeing what the other side is thinking and then having some fun on the side.

And "The Rapture is pretty much the stuff of ridicule anymore" (loose quote) just doesn't cut it.
And you are complaining that Icon miss quotes you? You are referencing the thread where it listed 2015 100 influential Christian leaders. You brought up the rapture, I just mentioned and author and a book series that has been milked dry.






Isn't that precisely what you have been doing?

Glad you are out of the closet now.
No, and I'm happy your glad now.


Originally Posted by blessedwife318 View Post
And why would I want to be associated with the heretical WoF teachings?
Who said you were?

Not me.

And I explained your confusion on that point in the response.
I actually don't understand this response at all, even with the context that I carried over.
But I am glad to see that you don't want to be associated with WoF although I find it odd that you spent so much energy then defending a doctrine of WoF.





Not odd...heretical.

Well I'm glad we agree that WoF is heretical

Yet you take offense that someone else might have a problem with other doctrines they see as equally heretical.

So if it was not against TOS you would question people's salvation based on their eschatology? Seems you and OR have something in common after all.

Christ returning in the First Century is the stuff of cults. Now tell me that makes you want to be Historicist more than ever, lol

I don't believe that Christ returned in the First Century. Again that is Post-mill.

Eradicating Scripture from Scripture is the stuff of cults.
Agreed.

You tell me why a thousand years is not a thousand years.
Why does forever only mean a thousand years?
why does 490 years actually equal 200+ years.
No system can answer every question, any more then anyone can full explain the trinity, or the hypostatic union.
That is where faith comes in.
Which is why ultimately I will still say I'm more pan-mill then anything, as it will all pan out in the end, but your questions moved me toward leaning toward a different camp, idea, view whatever word you want to use then you.


Always speaking and never being able to answer questions that call those doctrine into question, and sometimes make it absolutely impossible to maintain a semblance of reason...the stuff of cults.
Agreed


People who embrace a faith, doctrine, or group, without even knowing what they teach...the stuff of cults. "Boy, those Mormons sure are mice folk, what does it matter what they teach. I never felt that welcome in a Baptist/Methodist/Presbyterian(_____________fill in with former association) church!"
Agreed. Why do you think I started looking at Covenant Theology?

When people spam threads and disrupt then so that no-one even attempts to have a conversation on the subject any more...that's not right.
Well I hope that you will then apologize to Judith for hijacking her thread since you admit that its not right.
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well I finially figured out why you broke this into three replies as I had to edit our your continued from my last post to get it under the limit. Just wanted to let you know so you don't accuse me of editing your post to my advantage.

It wasn't me that it got to. You're the one with the hang-up, lol

I am sure there are some sincere believers in that group as well.

Wow so defending against the rank heresies of WoF is considered a hang-up in your view. That is 'odd'
Yes I'm sure their are some sheep, which is why I'm so adamant about confronting WoF teaching when it rears its ugly head.



On the contrary, the issue in view is honesty, and being able to be straight-forward about what you believe. I would rather see you openly confessing an amil view than the guerrilla tactics you have been using.

Fair Enough

Christianity has never been something someone is ashamed of. And if you say you didn't want to "jump into that fire," however you want to put it, then explain the potshots.

I'm not ashamed of my Christianity. And I clearly did jump into the fire. So I'm not sure what you are getting at here.



Not yet. Doubtful I ever will, until you start knowing what you believe and believing what you know.

"But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me." 2 Tim 1:12


I'll leave it at that, lol.
Ok


Rejection from who? You know what...never mind.

From the world. That is par for the course for Christians, or at least it should be.


Again, nice. lol

Glad I could make you laugh

That was a jab. You shouldn't have to make me explain my snide remarks (or my humor).
Nice to see you admitting you were taking jabs although you know what they say about jokes you have to explain.


No-one else is involved in this discussion. You are in view. This is serious advice. Now you tell me if you cannot see those who cling to each other have a remarkable lack of understanding concerning Scripture.
Oh I can see that. Its one of the amusing things about this forum.

That is the result of treating a Christian Doctrinal Discussion Forum like face-book. It is the same mentality I have seen in a number of Sunday schools I have visited, where a doctrine is tossed around and open to subjective interpretation.
Welcome to the Internet. Although I'm glad to see that we both agree that Doctrine is Objective. It doesn't matter what I think, all that matters is what the Bible says.


And you play into that when you enter a doctrinal discussion with nothing more than potshots at it because you don't happen to embrace it. What, did a pre-tribber upset you somewhere along the line? Like I have? Perhaps he sewed and I watered? lol
Not at all. Hard to be deep in pre-trib territory and not form wonderful friendships and relationships. You did not upset me at all, you amuse me.
Probably the most upsetting thing that has happened to me from the pre-trib camp is that they did not manage to make all the Left Behind books into movies. I'm actually serious about it, I think they would have made wonderful movies, although they would have had to combine books, maybe only have 6 or 7 movies at the most. But for some reason Lahaye and Cloud Ten had issues and the movies got progressively worse. Which was disappointing since Nicolie was my favorite of those books and they were not able to make it into a good movie.

Have no idea what that means. In view is a different forum altogether, where you can test your own doctrine with people you're not part of a club with.
Yes


It's a lot of fun, really, and challenging.
Agreed


God bless
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And why is that? Think about that before you answer.




I have no preference but that the people I talk with present the Biblical Basis for their views.

I don't condemn people for their views, and have learned that some of the views we might think are radical and perhaps moronic...can actually be understood as to how people would embrace them.

I'll tell you a couple tough ones: Soul Sleep and Annihilation. Presumed people who embraced these cultish views were idiots...until I started debating them.

Atheists? Also challenging.

Post-tribbers. Challenging sometimes, and when it is, one of the best discussions.

Historicists? Not so much.

;)




Again, you do not even know my group.




It's worse to just make snide comments your only contribution?




I've done that, several times.

Ask yourself why in several threads OR keeps dodging questions.




I'm stuck with what Scripture teaches, and whether that gains or loses the so-called friends one meets in Doctrinal discussion is...irrelevant. Because you can agree on 99% of doctrine but be at odds in one point...that's it.




I don't seek such support and have no need for it. That's because I don't roost in one place. That is one of the dangers of staying on only one forum. And many of the people are still debating the same doctrines with the same people and neither have changed much since the last time I was here.




Name them, lol.

Be waiting.

And while you're at it, will you acknowledge that he refuses to answer simple questions? Probably not. Can't turn on your brethren, now can you. Lest they turn on you and devour you the way they seek to do to everyone else.




Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.

;)




You still don't get it. Agreeing with me will get you nowhere. What do you think pointing to Scripture actually means, or are you practicing your "new-found method of interpretation," lol.




He is not in view, again, it is just advice.

I am not bashful to say I think he is disruptive and his doctrine erroneous. Or that he spams just about every thread he is in because he has never had an original idea in his life (and I admit I am guessing at that, it might have happened somewhere along the line).




Just advice. Doesn't mean anything.




You have a swelled sense of importance, lol. And noticeably ignore pretty clear statements. I guess I have to repeat my annoyance at people who simply take potshots with no intention but to insult and disrupt threads.

In view is simply testing your doctrine in a new environment, out of your safety zone.

You said...



...and okay. Maybe some time in the future you may reconsider.

It is challenging and will put you faith to the test. I don't recommend, though, doing something your not comfortable with.

And that, I think, is it for me. You are welcome to the last word.


God bless.
So I just realized I missed this one in all my replies and since I would not want you to say I was ignoring you I'll just let you know that I will get back to this when I have the computer again, probably tomorrow.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So I just realized I missed this one in all my replies and since I would not want you to say I was ignoring you I'll just let you know that I will get back to this when I have the computer again, probably tomorrow.

Feel free, but as I have told you, I will no longer "harass" you. If you feel it important to "put me in my place," feel free, just understand it was meant sincerely in trying to help.


God bless.
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And why is that? Think about that before you answer.
Your formatting is off for this quote so I'm not sure what you are asking.


I have no preference but that the people I talk with present the Biblical Basis for their views.
So far it seems you equate Biblical with agreeing with you instead of Biblical meaning agreeing with the Bible.



I don't condemn people for their views, and have learned that some of the views we might think are radical and perhaps moronic...can actually be understood as to how people would embrace them.
ok

I'll tell you a couple tough ones: Soul Sleep and Annihilation. Presumed people who embraced these cultish views were idiots...until I started debating them.
Heretical ideas

Atheists? Also challenging.
Somewhat although my interactions with Atheist has been limited.

Post-tribbers. Challenging sometimes, and when it is, one of the best discussions.
I've never really found post-tribbers to be that challenging to talk to.

Historicists? Not so much. ;)
Funny you never mention Amill.






Again, you do not even know my group.
And yet you think you know my group based on posters on here. I think I can also gain a good idea based on posters on here, or at least as good of idea as you can.




It's worse to just make snide comments your only contribution?

So all my replies to you have ONLY been snide?


I've done that, several times.

Really? Because I have yet to see that.

Ask yourself why in several threads OR keeps dodging questions.
Is he?




I'm stuck with what Scripture teaches, and whether that gains or loses the so-called friends one meets in Doctrinal discussion is...irrelevant. Because you can agree on 99% of doctrine but be at odds in one point...that's it.

Ok



I don't seek such support and have no need for it. That's because I don't roost in one place. That is one of the dangers of staying on only one forum. And many of the people are still debating the same doctrines with the same people and neither have changed much since the last time I was here.
I don't roost in one place either. And yet you keep acting like I do. Odd.




Name them, lol.

Be waiting.
Well the most recent is for a New Testament passage supporting ethnic Jewish rule.


And while you're at it, will you acknowledge that he refuses to answer simple questions? Probably not. Can't turn on your brethren, now can you. Lest they turn on you and devour you the way they seek to do to everyone else.
What questions?
You accused of the same thing and yet when I called you on that the best you could come up with is that I took awhile to answer you question since apparently you have some timer that people are expected to answer you in.



Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.

;)
See above.




You still don't get it. Agreeing with me will get you nowhere. What do you think pointing to Scripture actually means, or are you practicing your "new-found method of interpretation," lol.

And yet you still hold your beliefs as the litmus for being Biblical instead of holding the Bible as the litmus for being Biblical.
I actually don't get your point in the last part of the quoted statement but that is probably a good thing.


He is not in view, again, it is just advice.
Sure he's not :rolleyes:

I am not bashful to say I think he is disruptive and his doctrine erroneous. Or that he spams just about every thread he is in because he has never had an original idea in his life (and I admit I am guessing at that, it might have happened somewhere along the line).
I'm sure he thinks the same thing about you, but is that really called for?




Just advice. Doesn't mean anything.
So first you criticize me of not moving around then say it doesn't mean anything that I do move around:BangHead: Would you make up your mind please.




You have a swelled sense of importance, lol. And noticeably ignore pretty clear statements. I guess I have to repeat my annoyance at people who simply take potshots with no intention but to insult and disrupt threads.
Pot meet Kettle

In view is simply testing your doctrine in a new environment, out of your safety zone.

You said...

This is the forum outside my comfort zone

...and okay. Maybe some time in the future you may reconsider.

So do you want me to be outside my comfort zone or not?

It is challenging and will put you faith to the test. I don't recommend, though, doing something your not comfortable with.

So you recommend that I get out of my comfort zone and then when you find out I am on forums outside of my comfort zone, you say you don't recommend it? Again would you make your mind as its hard to have a discussion when you keep changing the rules.

And that, I think, is it for me. You are welcome to the last word.
So you recommend having debates with people of opposing views and now you are leaving this discussion because we have opposing views?


God bless.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that after 4 post you were getting tired and had forgotten what you had said earlier but this last one I found very confusing as you kept changing what you were saying.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
All I have to say is that I am deeply offended my "Oh...the Pastor is preaching" joke was not recognized.

How rude!


God bless.
 
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