You keep sayin that. Me and Bob have posted plenty of scriptures proving that. When we do youll say things like the commandments aint the commandments. How silly is that. The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussings there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
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SDA Sabbath keeping?
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You keep sayin that. Me and Bob have posted plenty of scriptures proving that. When we do youll say things like the commandments aint the commandments. How silly is that. The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussings there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
As circumcision was given only to the nation of Israel, and is now done away with so it is with the Sabbath. There is no command in the NT to keep the Sabbath. The generalization of the "the commands of Christ" does not include the Sabbath. Col.2 makes it clear that the Sabbath was merely a shadow of the real which was to come, and now is come. Thus the Sabbath has now been done away with.
Romans 14 also indicates that the Sabbath day is no more important than any other day, but every day is alike. There is no command anywhere in the NT for a believer to keep the Sabbath.
Furthermore, what does it mean to keep the Sabbath. Bob and those here who claim to keep the Sabbath don't. They just say they do. It is hypocrisy.
If they truly kept the Sabbath they would follow a pattern that is given as I posted in post #30 here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2230022&postcount=30
But none of you come even close to that type of worship. It is all hypocrisy on your part. You say you keep the Sabbath, but are not honest enough to come out and say that you don't. You don't even come remotely close to keeping the Sabbath.
<<<SDA Sabbath keeping>>> or no <<<SDA Sabbath keeping>>>
... it more and more looks like
"MY—THE LORD GOD’S—Sabbath
shall be a sign between ME—THE LORD GOD—and you . . .
shall be a sign that ye may know that I-AM-THE LORD . . .
shall be a sign that I-AM-THE LORD doth separate you . . .
shall be a sign that ye may know that I-AM-THE LORD, is your Mighty One . . .
shall be a sign that I-AM-WHO-I-AM, wrought for MY NAME . . .
shall be a sign that I-AM-THE LORD will take you to Me for my people
and shall be a sign that I-AM-THE LORD will be to you, your GOD.”
But for DHK the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD is not the Sabbath of the LORD _YOUR_ GOD, but of <the Jews> god.
Sunday keepers like DHK argue <<<The generalization of the "the commands of Christ" does not include the Sabbath. . . . There is no command anywhere in the NT for a believer to keep the Sabbath>>>
But I would like them to say of what or which <commands / command> Paul is here speaking:
“The man which doeth those things shall [command!] live by them!” Romans 10:5
“The just shall [command!] live by faith ... The man that doeth these things shall [command!] live in them!” Galatians 3:12
Yes, “Moses describes the righteousness which is of . . .”? ". . . which is of the LAW for EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH” !
“The Law is for EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH” ! That is the NEW Testament!
And now? Exactly of WHICH “Law” do Moses AND Paul, here speak?
Word for word, “My—the LORD GOD’S—statutes they despised ... My—the LORD GOD’S—judgments (Laws) WHICH if a man (any man) do, he shall [command! Law!] even live in them—MY SABBATHS which they greatly polluted!”
Paul quotes specifically THE LAW OF THE LORD GOD’S SABBATH that “If anyone do he SHALL [command! Law!] live in it”.
But DHK claims <<<The generalization of the "the commands of Christ" does not include the Sabbath>>>.
The Sabbath Command is Christ’s in the New Testament as good and as valid and MORE valid as the Sabbath Command is Yahweh’s in the Old Testament. MORE so, because Jesus Christ is the Personification and Embodiment and Substance and Essence ---yea the LIVING REPRESENTATION of all the Law of God and more than any other of God’s Statutes, Judgments and Commandments, this here <<generalization>> derived directly from God’s Sabbath Commands.
But I would like them to say of what or which <commands / command> Paul is here speaking:
“The man which doeth those things shall [command!] live by them!” Romans 10:5
“The just shall [command!] live by faith ... The man that doeth these things shall [command!] live in them!” Galatians 3:12
Yes, “Moses describes the righteousness which is of . . .”? ". . . which is of the LAW for EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH” !
“The Law is for EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH” ! That is the NEW Testament!
And now? Exactly of WHICH “Law” do Moses AND Paul, here speak?
Word for word, “My—the LORD GOD’S—statutes they despised ... My—the LORD GOD’S—judgments (Laws) WHICH if a man (any man) do, he shall [command! Law!] even live in them—MY SABBATHS which they greatly polluted!”
Paul quotes specifically THE LAW OF THE LORD GOD’S SABBATH that “If anyone do he SHALL [command! Law!] live in it”.
But DHK claims <<<The generalization of the "the commands of Christ" does not include the Sabbath>>>.
The Sabbath Command is Christ’s in the New Testament as good and as valid and MORE valid as the Sabbath Command is Yahweh’s in the Old Testament. MORE so, because Jesus Christ is the Personification and Embodiment and Substance and Essence ---yea the LIVING REPRESENTATION of all the Law of God and more than any other of God’s Statutes, Judgments and Commandments, this here <<generalization>> derived directly from God’s Sabbath Commands.
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How do you know I am a Sunday keeper.
I regard every day alike.
Do you here deny that you are a Sunday keeper? Why ask me if I know or not?
You say, you regard every day alike.
Well that is the most contradictory statement you, of all people DHK, could make. Just look at this present diatribe of yours AGAINST the Seventh Day the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD --- _your_ God, DHK!
To “regard” a day means to ‘keep’ it—to ‘keep’ it at least special and special FOR THE PURPOSE OF TO CONGREGATIONALLY WORSHIP God that, whole, day.
Which exact meaning of to “regard” a day—ONE day “above” any other day or days of the week or month or year according to the logic of the very argument raised here about what it means to “regard” a day--- which exact meaning I say, was the basic and essential CAUSE of the “judging and condemnation” of one another among the believers. (I say again, according to the apologist DHK here and or any other in favour of their own ‘all days -’ or ‘every day alike regard', dogma. Dogmatic law in fact.)
In other words, if to “regard” a day did not mean to ‘keep’ it FOR THE PURPOSE OF TO CONGREGATIONALLY WORSHIP God that, whole, day ESPECIALLY, there never would have started or raged the un-Christ-like mutual condemnation that went on among worshippers of Jesus Christ at Rome in Paul’s days.
Now you, DHK, say, you <<regard every day alike>>. Where is your New Testament command from Christ for that? And which <<<generalization of the "the commands of Christ">>> <includes> this dogmatic law of yours?
And it should be asked, DHK, If it is fair towards all believers because very few lucky ones like yourself, have all days alike at their disposal to “regard” in Congregational worship?
Which exact meaning of to “regard” a day—ONE day “above” any other day or days of the week or month or year according to the logic of the very argument raised here about what it means to “regard” a day--- which exact meaning I say, was the basic and essential CAUSE of the “judging and condemnation” of one another among the believers. (I say again, according to the apologist DHK here and or any other in favour of their own ‘all days -’ or ‘every day alike regard', dogma. Dogmatic law in fact.)
In other words, if to “regard” a day did not mean to ‘keep’ it FOR THE PURPOSE OF TO CONGREGATIONALLY WORSHIP God that, whole, day ESPECIALLY, there never would have started or raged the un-Christ-like mutual condemnation that went on among worshippers of Jesus Christ at Rome in Paul’s days.
Now you, DHK, say, you <<regard every day alike>>. Where is your New Testament command from Christ for that? And which <<<generalization of the "the commands of Christ">>> <includes> this dogmatic law of yours?
And it should be asked, DHK, If it is fair towards all believers because very few lucky ones like yourself, have all days alike at their disposal to “regard” in Congregational worship?
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What do you think? What is Biblical? To meet on Sunday? To meet on the Sabbath, or:
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
to meet every day as the early church did?
You, DHK, yourself, have how many times and in what convincing ways proven that the Apostolic age of the New Testament Church in significant aspects of worship greatly differed with all following dispensations of Christian worship.
You know as well or bad as I do Apostolic gifts and requirements STOPPED.
And you also as bad or as good as I, know the true and correct understanding of the 'examples' of "daily" worship by the Apostolic Church.
You have painted yourself into a corner, with due respect, DHK. But that is it. Your examples came to nothing and are irrelevant and erroneous. These three things, yes. We need not to go over any in detail yet another time.
DHK I say it in the best Christian love I can, You are kicking against the pricks as far as the Christian Day of Worship-Rest is concerned. The Lord of the Lord's Supper has his Lord's Day in the New Testament Scriptures and no one, also not you, DHK, can nullify or as much as deny it, or, deny that that day, is "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath : OF THE LORD _YOUR_ GOD", DHK!
vooks
Active Member
This is what Sabbatarians keep on missing.
A Christian is FREE to regard or not to regard any day.
In that FREEDOM, it matters not the reason for esteeming ANY day. I may esteem Tuesday because they have fantastic 2-for-the-price-of-1 pizza offers:laugh:
In that FREEDOM, I owe NOBODY no explanation.
In short if you take your kid to a store and ALLOW them to pick ANY toy, you can't thereafter demand a dissertation on why they picked Batman and not Superman
When some old reformers and Protestants were pressured to explain why they keep Sunday, they mistakenly explained it as the new sabbath. All they should have said is, they keep whatever they like and they owe nobody no explanation
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Are you denying what the Scripture says GE? From house to house--continuing daily with one accord??
What does the next verse say?
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
--Did you want to deny this scripture as well?
The fact is that the early church met on a daily basis. The Sabbath was not important to them, for every day was alike. They met every day of the week. The Sabbath had been done away. The only Sabbath they knew was Christ Himself. The Sabbath was not a day but a Person who actually could give them "rest."
Every day they met--continuing daily with one accord.
Or do you care to deny the Scriptures?
LUKE 4 [14] And JESUS returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he WENT INTO THE SYNAGOGUE ON THE SABBATH DAY, and stood up for to read.
JESUS kept the sabbath
ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
PAUL kept the sabbath
ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, THE GENTILES besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And THE NEXT SABBATH DAY CAME ALMOST THE WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD.
GENTILES come together on the sabbath to hear the WORD.
Can anyone show me in scripture where the Word of God actually changes or does away with the sabbath day of rest? Anywhere in the new testament? How about in the old testament? Anywhere?
ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.
During the time of Paul there were also many who accused Paul, saying he was not keeping Gods law (which includes the sabbath). Just as it is today, nobody seems to be able to prove that.
Hey Bob! Keep tryin to repair the breach.
LUKE 4 [16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.[17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,[18] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED,[19] TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.[20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Theres no doubt that the scriptures Jesus was reading in Luke 4 are found in Isaiah 61 {1&2}
ISAIAH 61 [1] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD GOD IS UPON ME; BECAUSE THE LORD HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH GOOD TIDINGS UNTO THE MEEK; HE HATH SENT ME TO BIND UP THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PROCLAIM LIBERTY TO THE CAPTIVES, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;[2] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our god; to comfort all that mourn;[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.[4] And THEY SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTES, they shall RAISE UP THE FORMER DESOLATIONS, AND THEY SHALL REPAIR THE WASTE CITIES, THE DESOLATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS.[5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.[6] But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
You can see what these people who Jesus came for {Luke 4 v18} {Isaiah 61 v1} are going to be doing
Isaiah 61 {build the old wastes - raise up desolations of many generations - repair the waste cities}
Isaiah 58 {build the old waste - raise up foundations of many generations - repairer of the breach}
ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTE PLACES: thou shalt RAISE UP THE FOUNDATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS; and thou shalt be called, THE REPAIRER OF THE BREACH, THE RESTORER OF PATHS TO DWELL IN.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call THE SABBATH a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
REPAIR THE BREACH. Restore the path. Gods sabbath day. Will they listen?
ISAIAH 30 [9] That this is a rebellious people, LYING CHILDREN, CHILDREN THAT WILL NOT HEAR THE LAW OF THE LORD:[10] Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:[11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.[12] Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:[13] Therefore THIS INIQUITY SHALL BE TO YOU AS A BREACH READY TO FALL, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.[14] And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.[15] For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; IN RETURNING AND REST SHALL YE BE SAVED; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: AND YE WOULD NOT.
Nope. The "many" will not listen. A breach ready to fall!
LUKE 4 [16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.[17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,[18] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED,[19] TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.[20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Theres no doubt that the scriptures Jesus was reading in Luke 4 are found in Isaiah 61 {1&2}
ISAIAH 61 [1] THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD GOD IS UPON ME; BECAUSE THE LORD HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH GOOD TIDINGS UNTO THE MEEK; HE HATH SENT ME TO BIND UP THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PROCLAIM LIBERTY TO THE CAPTIVES, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;[2] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our god; to comfort all that mourn;[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.[4] And THEY SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTES, they shall RAISE UP THE FORMER DESOLATIONS, AND THEY SHALL REPAIR THE WASTE CITIES, THE DESOLATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS.[5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.[6] But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
You can see what these people who Jesus came for {Luke 4 v18} {Isaiah 61 v1} are going to be doing
Isaiah 61 {build the old wastes - raise up desolations of many generations - repair the waste cities}
Isaiah 58 {build the old waste - raise up foundations of many generations - repairer of the breach}
ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee SHALL BUILD THE OLD WASTE PLACES: thou shalt RAISE UP THE FOUNDATIONS OF MANY GENERATIONS; and thou shalt be called, THE REPAIRER OF THE BREACH, THE RESTORER OF PATHS TO DWELL IN.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call THE SABBATH a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
REPAIR THE BREACH. Restore the path. Gods sabbath day. Will they listen?
ISAIAH 30 [9] That this is a rebellious people, LYING CHILDREN, CHILDREN THAT WILL NOT HEAR THE LAW OF THE LORD:[10] Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:[11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.[12] Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:[13] Therefore THIS INIQUITY SHALL BE TO YOU AS A BREACH READY TO FALL, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.[14] And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.[15] For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; IN RETURNING AND REST SHALL YE BE SAVED; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: AND YE WOULD NOT.
Nope. The "many" will not listen. A breach ready to fall!
What has this got to do with the Sabbath? Nothing. The word "rest" is simply used as a verb. Look at a few other translations:
(Darby) and to you that are troubled repose with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with the angels of his power,
(ESV) and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
(ISV) and to give us who are afflicted relief when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
(LITV) and to give you, those being afflicted, relief with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from Heaven with angels of His power,
The word "relief" is used more times than the word "rest." This has nothing to do with the Sabbath.
This is simply another red herring.
To sum up this predictable response--Paul went to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. He went to them into their synagogues and on the Sabbath Day for an obvious reason.
1. They gathered together in the synagogues.
2. They gathered together on the Sabbath Day.
This was a matter of practicality, not a matter of Paul keeping the Sabbath.
He knew that they would be there on the Sabbath Day, so that is when he would go there and meet with them. He was a missionary. If a missionary wants to present his field to a church today he must go on Sunday when the people meet together. On Monday they won't be there. Any thinking person can see this through.
This looks further into 2Thes.1
ISAIAH 14 [3] And IT SHALL COME TO PASS in the day that THE LORD SHALL GIVE THEE REST from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. [7] THE WHOLE EARTH IS AT REST, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Ya see where the bible says "rest" in scripture above. What do your books say instead of rest
ISAIAH 14 [3] And IT SHALL COME TO PASS in the day that THE LORD SHALL GIVE THEE REST from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. [7] THE WHOLE EARTH IS AT REST, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Ya see where the bible says "rest" in scripture above. What do your books say instead of rest