Featured 5 reasons why the Preterist and/or semi-preterist position is impossible

Is Barney the Anti-Christ?

Given: Barney is a CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
Prove: Barney is satanic

The Romans had no letter 'U', and used 'V' instead for
printing, meaning the Roman representation would for
Barney would be: CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR

CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR

Extracting the Roman numerals, we have:
CV V L DI V

And their decimal equivalents are:
100 5 5 50 500 1 5

Adding those numbers produces: 666.

666 is the number of the Beast.
Proved: BARNEY IS SATAN!

http://www.comedycorner.org/20.html

 

I knew it!!!! I never trusted that dinosaur!

 

So we have an Nero, the Pope(Vicar of Christ) and Barney, all adding up to 666......you can't trust anyone anymore!

 

I did answer it at the end of post #56

That was sarcasm. Couldn't you tell? But seriously, I'll send it to you if you want. I have an article that just came out in a NT journal that is from a chapter of it. I can link that to you as well.

Serious as a heartattack, brother.

I'm sure it won't meet your satisfaction, but it really does need its own thread. But I will leave my point from Rev. 5:5-6 and the grammar it indicates stand for itself. Jesus has overcome or conquered (past tense). He is located in the middle of the throne. Conquered king and enthroned. Sounds like an already Kingdom to me.

 

To give you a taste... this comes from a footnote from my thesis as it pertains to your knockout punch and Rev. 5:6 which has Jesus on the throne (and already victorious in v. 5):

Riveting stuff, no???

 

Much of Jewish and Christian geamatria was done in Hebrew transliteration. What do you think the significance of 14 is in Matthew 1 if not referencing David in Hebrew??? This is standard stuff.

And he was just pointing out that there is quite an early variant for 616 as well. Interestingly enough, you can change the spelling for Caesar Nero in the Hebrew slightly and get 616 as well.

PS-when you say the whole world, is that like the whole world that was taxed by Caesar Augustus in Luke? Just wondering.

 

The emperor was stamped on the currency. No one could by or sell without Roman coins.

Caesar took a census of "all the world" per Luke. Butt it wasn't the whole world was it. Caesar was worshipped by "all the world" as well.

666 and 616 both occur in Greek manuscripts. Which ever one you choose. Nero hits it.

FYI, I don't subscribe to the preterist view here. I am more of an Idealist on this. I am just showing you that you are not considering other views and ignoring the facts they put forth.

Partial preterist, Amill, and post trib can all make strong arguments. You shouldn't dismiss them so easily.

 

Apparently you have not been on this Forum long enough to understand that the pre-trib-dispensationalism of John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield is the fount of all truth instead of Scripture?

 

Yeah, clearly I should have learned that by now

 

Jews revolted in 66 and started minting their own coins. Who was on the coin handed to Jesus? Besides, where this Jewish coins accepted throughout the Roman empire? Nope! Roman coin was. Was Revelation written to the church of Jerusalem? No.

Did John know Hebrew? Yes he did. Did he know the numerical values? Probably he was smart guy.

Weakness??? Figured you would like Nero equaling 666. You can go hunt for his demonic spirit.

"All the world" is a figure of speech used in that time. In the same geographical area, Caesar was worshipped. According to historian Josephus, they preformed a daily sacrifice in the Jewish temple for Caesar. Up until the revolt anyway.

Feel free to remove the "you lied" accusation. Since it is you who mislead.

 

I'm not preterist. So now you are lying. As I stated earlier, I told hold to this position, but I can argue for it. They have valid points you refuse to give the honest consideration too.

You think their will be a literal one word currency? That will never, ever happen. Symbolically the Roman coins were universal in the same aspect the Roman census was universal.

And the Jewish government was appointed rulers of Rome. Not really their own government.

What John do you think wrote revelation? Are you claiming someone other than the apostle?

 

[Calypsis4;:

You cannot lump these two views together. It is two different views.

Partial Preterists do not teach that 70 ad was a second coming but rather a coming in judgment.

The date of the writing of Revelation is disputed.

Paul spoke to the Thessalonians that they knew who he was speaking of in their day.....
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp

was about 100 years later....everyone uses this same quote...it is not conclusive.

...and like the Russian nuclear disaster at Chernobyl in the 80's (the Hebrew word for it is 'Wormwood'), notwithstanding; the details did not agree with Revelation 8:11. Therefore, the prophecies of Revelation are yet future and apply to that period of time Jeremiah referred to as 'the time of Jacob's trouble' and what Daniel called the 'seventieth week' (Dan. 9:24-27.)[/QUOTE]

You cannot show any connection for Jer 30:7...with any portion of revelation.

Dan 9 24-27 is speaking of Jesus
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/70wedan9.htm
THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE

http://www.life.org/Tribulation.html
The reference to the time of Jacob's trouble is found in (Jer 30:5-7). From what appears in chapter 29:1, as well as from the immediate context, it is evident that the prophecy concerning Jacob's trouble was spoken after the captivity in Babylon had begun; so it was not the punishment inflicted by Nebuchadnezzar that the prophet was foretelling. This is made very plain by the verses immediately preceding the prophecy of Jacob's trouble, in which God says that He will bring again the captivity of His people and cause them to return to the land of their fathers. So the predicted order of events was the return of the captivity from Babylon, and after that the time of Jacob's trouble, which is foretold in these striking words:


"For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now and see whether a man doth travail with child? Wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it; it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it" (Jer 30:5-7).


The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans is a complete fulfilment of this prophecy. Why then should we ignore a conspicuous historical fulfilment and surmise a fulfilment in the future, for which there is no proof?


The words none is like it establish the fact hat the time of Jacob's trouble, foretold by Jeremiah, is the same as the time of trouble such as never was, foretold to Daniel by the man clothed in linen, and the same as the great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be, foretold by the Lord as then about to come upon the people. For there cannot be two such times of trouble.

[/QUOTE]

cometh with clouds is an ot figure of God's judgment.....not a physical coming


The Kingdom has already been started;

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire


http://kloposmasm.com/tag/philip-mauro/

 

From Philip Mauro:
f the true starting point, we can now proceed with confidence to an examination of the
details of the prophecy. But it will be needful, as we go on, to test every conclusion by the Scriptures, and
to exercise care that we accept nothing that is not supported by ample proof.


The prophetic part of the angel’s message begins at verse 24, which, in our AV reads as follows:

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to
make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness and
to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy (place).”
Here are six distinct things which were to happen within a definitely marked off period of seventy sevens
of years (490 years). These six specified things are closely related one to the other, for they are all connected
by the conjunction “and.”
This verse, which is a prophecy complete in itself, gives no information in regard to either the starting
point of the 490 years, or the means whereby the predicted events were to be accomplished. That information,
however, is given in the verses which follow. From them we learn that the prophetic period was to begin to
run “from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem”; also that sixty-nine weeks
(seven plus sixty-two) would reach “unto Messiah, the Prince”; and further that “after the three-score and
two weeks shall Messiah be cut off.” It was by the cutting off of the Messiah that the six predictions of verse 24
were to be fulfilled. This should be carefully noted.
Thus we have before us a prophecy of transcendent interest, a predicted stretch of time from the rebeginning of the Jewish nation and the rebuilding of the holy city, down to the culminating event of all history, and of all the ages of time the crucifixion of the Divine Redeemer. These are things which the angels desire to look into (1 Peter 1:12); and surely our hearts should move us to inquire into them, not in a spirit of carnal curiosity, and not with any purpose to uphold a favorite scheme of prophetic interpretation, but with
the reverent desire to learn all that God has been pleased to reveal touching this most important and most sacred matter.
Verses 25–27 also foretell the overwhelming and exterminating judgments — the “desolations” that were
to fall upon the people and the city, and which were to last throughout this entire dispensation.

The first words of verse 25, “Know therefore,” show that what follows is explanatory of the prophecy contained in verse 24 This too should be carefully noted.
It is essential to a right understanding of the prophecy to observe, and to keep in mind, that the six things
of verse 24 were to be fulfilled (and now have been fulfilled) by Christ being “cut off,” and by what followed
immediately thereafter, namely, His resurrection from the dead, and His ascension into heaven. With that
simple fact in mind it will be easy to “understand” all the main points of the prophecy.
These are the six predicted items:

1. To finish the transgression.The “transgression” of Israel had long been the burden of the messages
of God’s prophets. It was for their “transgression” that they had been sent into captivity, and that their
land and city had been made a “desolation” for seventy years.
Daniel himself had confessed this, saying, “Yea, all Israel have transgressed Thy law. even by departing
that they might not obey Thy voice. Therefore the curse is poured upon us” (verse 11). But the angel revealed to him the distressing news that the full measure of Israel’s “transgression” was yet to be completed; that the children were yet to fill up the iniquity of their fathers; and that, as a consequence, God
would bring upon them a far greater “desolation” than that which had been wrought by Nebuchadnezzar. For “to finish the transgression” could mean nothing less or other than the betrayal and crucifixion
of their promised and expected Messiah.
We would call particular attention at this point to the words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the leaders of the
14
people shortly before His betrayal; for there is in them a striking similarity to the words of the prophecy
of Gabriel. He said: “Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers…that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth” (Matthew 23:32). In these words of Christ we find first, a declaration
that the hour had come for them “to finish the transgression”; and second, a strong intimation that the
predicted desolations were to come, as a judgment, upon that generation, as appears by the words “that
upon you may come.”
Our Lord’s concluding words at that time have great significance when considered in the light of this
prophecy. He said, “Verily I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation”; and then, as
the awful doom of the beloved city pressed upon His heart, He burst into the lamentation, “O Jerusalem,
Jerusalem,” ending with the significant words, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
The terrible and unparalleled character of the judgments which were poured out upon Jerusalem at the
time of its destruction in AD 70 has been lost sight of in our day. But if we would learn how great an event
it was in the eyes of God, we have only to consider our Lord’s anguish of soul as He thought upon it. Even
when on the way to the Cross it was more to Him than His own approaching sufferings (Luke 21:28–30).
The apostle Paul also speaks in similar terms of the transgressions of that generation of Jews, who not
only crucified the Lord Jesus, and then rejected the gospel preached to them in His Name, but also forbade that He be preached to the Gentiles. Wherefore the apostle said that they “fill up their sins always;
for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost” (1 Thessalonians 2:15–16). For they were indeed
about to undergo God’s wrath “to the uttermost” in the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and in the
scattering of the people among all the nations of the world, to suffer extreme miseries at their hands.
These Scriptures are of much importance in connection with our present study, and we shall have occasion to refer to them again.
It is not difficult to discern why the list of the six great things comprised in this prophecy was headed by
the finishing of the transgression; for the same act, which constituted the crowning sin of Israel, also
served for the putting away of sin (Hebrews 9:26), and the accomplishing of eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12). They did indeed take Him, and with wicked hands crucified and slew Him; but it was done
“by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” (Acts 2:23). The powers and authorities of Judea
and of Rome, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were indeed gathered together against Him; but
it was to do what God’s own hand and counsel had determined before to be done (Acts 4:26–28). There is
nothing more wonderful in all that has been made known to us, than that the people and their rulers, because they knew Him not, nor the voices of their own prophets which were read every Sabbath day,
should have fulfilled them in condemning Him (Acts 13:27). Therefore, among the many prophecies that
were then “fulfilled,” a promise be given to that which forms the subject of our present study.

2. To make an end of sins.On this item we need not dwell at length; for we have already called attention to the marvellous workings of God’s wisdom in causing that the extreme sin of man should serve to accomplish eternal redemption, and so provide a complete remedy for sin for the crucifixion of Christ,
though it was truly a deed of diabolical wickedness on the part of man, was on His own part the offering of
Himself without spot to God as a sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 9:14). It was thus that He “offered the one
Sacrifice for sins forever” (Hebrews 10:12).
We understand that the sense in which the death of Christ made “an end of sins” was that thereby He
made a perfect atonement for sins, as written in Hebrews 1:3, “when He had by Himself purged our
sins’” and in many like passages. It is to be noted however, that the Hebrew word for “sins” in this passage means not only the sin itself, but also the sacrifice therefore. Hence it is thought by some that what
the angel here foretold was the making an end of the sin offering required by the law. That was, indeed,
an incidental result, and it is mentioned expressly in verse 27. But the word used in that verse is not the
word found in verse 24, which means sin or sin offering It is a different word, meaning sacrifice. We conclude, therefore, that the words, “to make an end of sins”, should be taken in their most obvious sense.

 

Sound reasoning OR.

So, what is happening here in this forum with all these different views around the arts and science of eschatology is actually not confusion but a seeking of the truth. We as individuals are doing exactly what (according to 1 Peter 1:10-12) the prophets themselves did by making a diligent search concerning the sufferings of Christ because they themselves were unsure of how to put all the details together in a coherent way.

Yes, they themselves were not sure of the assembling of the details concerning His first coming (His Incarnation).

It's no wonder we have the same issues concerning His Second Coming (His Glorification).

Therefore it is not good that we should behave in a confrontational manner toward each other.

OR honestly admits that Revelation 20 and the 1000 years is a "problem".

I will admit the same for 1 Peter 3:8-10 for my position.

Obviously the problem is ours and not the word of God and I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

I actually heard a weather man in Kansas make that forecast about whether it would rain or not ("I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens").


HankD