The Messianic Kingdom?

[DHK]

I have asked you two questions in my post #82 which you totally ignore. I will pose them again:

Now you answer some questions instead of asking them!

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Originally Posted by DHK
And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

I will respond with one simple question: Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

The question is not germane to the passage. It is like reading Romans 1:18-19, a description of the depravity of man, and then asking: "Are you saying the spiritual gifts are not for today?" What do the spiritual gifts have to do with the depravity of man.
So likewise, what does the death of Christ, and his accomplishments have to do with this eschatological passage? Nothing!

First, context: Realize that Daniel is writing this book. He is writing to the Jews. That is his audience. He is not writing about Gentiles and their salvation, he is writing concerning the Jews.

Verse 24:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks are 490 years, or 70 weeks of 7 years. They are determined upon THY people (the Jews), and THY holy city (Jerusalem).
--Something will bring about or finish their transgressions,
and it will finish THEIR sins.
It will make a reconciliation for THEIR iniquity.
It will bring in everlasting righteousness.
It will anoint the most holy.
And the vision and prophesy will be sealed up.

All of the above has not yet happened. It did not happen at the cross. The sins and transgressions of the Jews have only been increasing. They have not been reconciled to their Messiah. There is no holy place to be anointed. And certainly everlasting righteousness is not present!

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
7 + 62 = 69 which is 483. This has already been calculated by various scholars to be dated right to 33 A.D. which is the death of Christ, the end of the 69th week, which is what is meant by "after" or "at the end of" the 69th week.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
--See above.
It simply says "Messiah shall be cut off." It does not give any of his blessings. That is not the purpose of this passage.
Then immediately it says: "The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city." He said "the people...shall destroy the city. That is the Roman armies, which they did in 70 A.D.
The prince to come is a foreigner (of the people that came to destroy). When he comes, then the end shall come with a flood (or destruction like a flood) and the end of the war.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
--It is that prince, otherwise known as the Antichrist, or the man of sin, who will confirm the covenant with many (the Jews) for one week (Daniel's 70th week). In the middle of the week, he shall desecrate the Temple, and all sacrifices shall cease. The Temple will become "desolate." Then the end shall be. (Christ shall come and put an end to all things). Israel shall be saved.

Originally Posted by DHK
All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ" Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

Another non sequitor. See my answer above about Romans 1:18-29.

More directly.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[DHK]

Jesus Christ was Baptized before HE started HIS ministry. That is the Great event.

When Jesus was baptized what covenant did he make and with who?

He died for the Sins of the People of God, the MANY, 3.5 years after HE started HIS ministry in the middle of the 70th week at the hands to two evil groups of people, the Jews and Rome. But HE came forth out of the grave 3 days later. So we have the two greatest events in history in case you don't understand the significance.

The fact is that he never made a covenant with anyone at his baptism. It is all talk and no walk. Did he say: "I will make a covenant with____and it will last until the death of Stephen. No.

Stephen was stoned and Paul was converted about 3.5 years later. And I am not saying that is the end of the 70th week. But whatever it was happened about 2000 years ago and to claim otherwise is sheer nonsense!

But there was no covenant like the passage says.
"And he confirmed a covenant for seven years."
Where is this covenant of seven years that Jesus actually made??

 

[OldRegular]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The question is not germane to the passage. It is like reading Romans 1:18-19, a description of the depravity of man, and then asking: "Are you saying the spiritual gifts are not for today?" What do the spiritual gifts have to do with the depravity of man.
So likewise, what does the death of Christ, and his accomplishments have to do with this eschatological passage? Nothing!

First, context: Realize that Daniel is writing this book. He is writing to the Jews. That is his audience. He is not writing about Gentiles and their salvation, he is writing concerning the Jews.

Verse 24:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks are 490 years, or 70 weeks of 7 years. They are determined upon THY people (the Jews), and THY holy city (Jerusalem).
--Something will bring about or finish their transgressions,
and it will finish THEIR sins.
It will make a reconciliation for THEIR iniquity.
It will bring in everlasting righteousness.
It will anoint the most holy.
And the vision and prophesy will be sealed up.

All of the above has not yet happened. It did not happen at the cross. The sins and transgressions of the Jews have only been increasing. They have not been reconciled to their Messiah. There is no holy place to be anointed. And certainly everlasting righteousness is not present!

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
7 + 62 = 69 which is 483. This has already been calculated by various scholars to be dated right to 33 A.D. which is the death of Christ, the end of the 69th week, which is what is meant by "after" or "at the end of" the 69th week.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
--See above.
It simply says "Messiah shall be cut off." It does not give any of his blessings. That is not the purpose of this passage.
Then immediately it says: "The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city." He said "the people...shall destroy the city. That is the Roman armies, which they did in 70 A.D.
The prince to come is a foreigner (of the people that came to destroy). When he comes, then the end shall come with a flood (or destruction like a flood) and the end of the war.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
--It is that prince, otherwise known as the Antichrist, or the man of sin, who will confirm the covenant with many (the Jews) for one week (Daniel's 70th week). In the middle of the week, he shall desecrate the Temple, and all sacrifices shall cease. The Temple will become "desolate." Then the end shall be. (Christ shall come and put an end to all things). Israel shall be saved.


Another non sequitor. See my answer above about Romans 1:18-29.

More directly.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

You spout a lot of words but you will not answer the questions.

1. Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

2. Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ"? Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

 

[OldRegular]

DHK, Did the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplish nothing?

When Jesus was baptized what covenant did he make and with who?


The fact is that he never made a covenant with anyone at his baptism. It is all talk and no walk. Did he say: "I will make a covenant with____and it will last until the death of Stephen. No.


But there was no covenant like the passage says.
"And he confirmed a covenant for seven years."
Where is this covenant of seven years that Jesus actually made??

The fact is HE caused a covenant to prevail by HIS death. I assume that you are participant in that Covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-13
7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:11-16
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

I do realize you will not understand the above Scripture since you are unable to answer the questions I posed in the preceding post and pose once again.

1. Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

2. Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ"? Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

 

[DHK]

The fact is HE caused a covenant to prevail by HIS death. I assume that you are participant in that Covenant.

I do realize you will not understand the above Scripture since you are unable to answer the questions I posed in the preceding post and pose once again.

Nowhere does any scripture you have posted, nor any other scripture indicate that Christ made a covenant with anyone or any group of people for a period of seven years, and then broke that covenant in the midst of it by his death. That is ludicrous.

You have Jesus pictured as a sinner; a covenant-breaker.

 

[OldRegular]

Nowhere does any scripture you have posted, nor any other scripture indicate that Christ made a covenant with anyone or any group of people for a period of seven years, and then broke that covenant in the midst of it by his death. That is ludicrous.

You have Jesus pictured as a sinner; a covenant-breaker.

DHK, in your post #70 you stated:

These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Daniel 9:26 clearly shows the sacrificial Death of Jesus Christ. Yet you are so brainwashed by dispensational error that you cannot answer the simple questions I posed because it will show that your statement above is false.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
1. Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

2. Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ"? Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

All these events did take place in the 70th week almost 2000 years ago! Everyone who claims to be a Christian should be eternally grateful they did. I know I am!

 

[DHK]

DHK, in your post #70 you stated:
Daniel 9:26 clearly shows the sacrificial Death of Jesus Christ.

Dan.9:26 very accurately predicts the death of Christ right to the very year--the end of the 69th year. But you put it in the midst of the 70th year where it doesn't belong.

Yet you are so brainwashed by dispensational error that you cannot answer the simple questions I posed because it will show that your statement above is false.

The answers to the questions you asked are not found in Dan.9:24-27, and are therefore irrelevant. If you want me to answer them from other Scriptures I can do that, but they are not found in Daniel 9.

All these events did take place in the 70th week almost 2000 years ago! Everyone who claims to be a Christian should be eternally grateful they did. I know I am!

NO they did not. Daniel was writing to the Jews. He was not writing about the salvation of all mankind. And the "he" in Daniel 9:27 does not refer to Christ, but rather the Antichrist.

You have Christ pictured as a sinner; a covenant-breaker. You say he made a covenant for seven years (a promise), and then half way through he broke that promise. He is a liar, a truce-breaker, doesn't keep his Word, etc. That is how you picture Christ.
What covenant did he make and with who for seven years?

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Nowhere does any scripture you have posted, nor any other scripture indicate that Christ made a covenant with anyone or any group of people

yes there is

for a period of seven years, and then broke that covenant in the midst of it by his death. That is ludicrous.

You have Jesus pictured as a sinner; a covenant-breaker.

He did no such thing.
Jesus made the Covenant with many......This is the New Covenant in my blood


26 And while they were eating, Jesus having taken the bread, and having blessed, did brake, and was giving to the disciples, and said, `Take, eat, this is my body;'

27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;

28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

But you do not believe the New covenant is for Christians so you ignore this:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

DHK


yes there is



He did no such thing.
Jesus made the Covenant with many......This is the New Covenant in my blood


26 And while they were eating, Jesus having taken the bread, and having blessed, did brake, and was giving to the disciples, and said, `Take, eat, this is my body;'

27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;

28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

But you do not believe the New covenant is for Christians so you ignore this:thumbs:

Nice to see you enter in, Icon, but just like OR your are ignoring the details.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

According to OR the "he" is Christ.
"He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" or 7 years.

Then he will break that covenant in the middle of that seven years.

So, Christ makes a covenant, a promise that will last for seven years, becomes a truce-breaker, a liar, by breaking it half way through.
Astonishing that you would call Christ a liar and truce-breaker??

When did this so-called covenant start and end? With whom did he make it with? Where is it recorded?

 

[Iconoclast]

Dhk

If you would read with comprehension the passage does not say anything as you wickedly suggest.......He is cut off in the midst of the week.....after 3.5 years......it was the same time as THE CROSS

Everything was fullfilled that whole list that you deny and say was future.

By the way....the antichrist did not bring in everlasting righteousness. ..lol

 

[Iconoclast]

The idea of breaking the covenant is a dispensational fantasy not found in the text....or in ORs post
the so-called Covenant as you call it was made at the Last Supper maybe you've heard of it....

your vile suggestions that any of us say that Jesus is a covenant breaker or breaks a truce is just wickedness on your part for not being able to answer the question

 

[DHK]

Dhk

If you would read with comprehension the passage does not say anything as you wickedly suggest.......He is cut off in the midst of the week.....after 3.5 years......it was the same time as THE CROSS

Everything was fullfilled that whole list that you deny and say was future.

By the way....the antichrist did not bring in everlasting righteousness. ..lol

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

First of all I don't believe this is speaking of Christ. To force that interpretation into this verse is ridiculous. The "he" refers to the antecedent in verse 26 which is "the prince" a foreigner, one who is "of the people" that destroyed the Temple of the Jews. Obviously it is not Christ.

However, you guys are determined to say it is Christ. Therefore, using your interpretation, "Christ confirmed a covenant for one week."
That is your interpretation.
Where is the one week; 7 years--the beginning and the end.
With whom was this covenant made--a covenant for seven years.
A covenant for a period of seven years was made by Christ and they suddenly Christ breaks that covenant in the middle of it by dying. He doesn't keep it. He is a liar and a truce-breaker. Can't you see what you are teaching here?

Christ cut himself off in the midst of the week so that he didn't have to keep his covenant, the promise of a full seven years?? He is still a truce-breaker according to your interpretation. Read the verse and explain this to me.

 

[OldRegular]

Nice to see you enter in, Icon, but just like OR your are ignoring the details.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

According to OR the "he" is Christ.
"He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" or 7 years.

Then he will break that covenant in the middle of that seven years.

You are making a gross and false and unscriptural interpretation because you have bought the dispensational lie about this prophecy. Daniel 9:26 states:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The above Scripture states unequivocally that Jesus Christ was slaughtered AFTER 69 weeks. That means that , absent the lie of dispensational doctrine, Jesus Christ was slaughtered during the 70th week. In Daniel 9:27 we read:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You say of the above Scripture:

So, Christ makes a covenant, a promise that will last for seven years, becomes a truce-breaker, a liar, by breaking it half way through.
Astonishing that you would call Christ a liar and truce-breaker??
When did this so-called covenant start and end? With whom did he make it with? Where is it recorded?

What is your justification for saying that Jesus Christ is a covenant breaker. {I am pleased that you finally recognize the He of verse 27 is Jesus Christ.} There is nothing about breaking a covenant in that Scripture. That is simply the result of the dispensational lie that the "foreigner" made a covenant with the Jews. Yet the Scripture says the covenant Jesus Christ shall "cause to prevail" is with the many.

{Something I have found strange in the 10+years I have been on this Forum is how frequently dispensationalists use the pejorative "liar" in connection with GOD. It is you DHK who is calling Jesus Christ a liar and truce breaker! Where is the word truce mentioned in verse 27. You are again simply spouting the dispensational lie that the covenant is a truce between the "foreigner" of the CEV and Israel.}

So it has been established by any rational reading of verse 26 that Jesus Christ died DURING the 69th week. Given the start of HIS ministry at the beginning of the 70th week Jesus Christ was slaughtered through the connivance of the Jews with the hated Romans {They hated Jesus Christ more.} in the middle of the 70th week.

The sacrificial death of Jesus Christ made the sacrifice and oblation in the Temple worthless and their continuation was an abomination before GOD.

You are so bewitched with the dispensational error DHK that you are afraid to answer the simple questions I have asked repeatedly:

1. Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

2. Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ"? Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

The reason you will not answer them is that they give the lie to your repeated assertion that:

Originally Posted by DHK
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

I don't know how you interpret the above but they have certainly taken place or we are all still lost and in our sins.

 

[OldRegular]

Dhk

If you would read with comprehension the passage does not say anything as you wickedly suggest.......He is cut off in the midst of the week.....after 3.5 years......it was the same time as THE CROSS

Everything was fullfilled that whole list that you deny and say was future.

By the way....the antichrist did not bring in everlasting righteousness. ..lol

Strange isn't it, Icon. DHK insists that with the death of Jesus Christ none of the following happened:

Originally Posted by DHK {post#70}
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Yet DHK says that they will all take place during the 70th week {His words, not mine.} when the so-called super-duper Anti-Christ is reigning. That folks is what you get from the false doctrine invented by John Nelson Darby and popularized in this country by Cyrus I Scofield.

 

[revmwc]

Dhk

If you would read with comprehension the passage does not say anything as you wickedly suggest.......He is cut off in the midst of the week.....after 3.5 years......it was the same time as THE CROSS

Everything was fullfilled that whole list that you deny and say was future.

By the way....the antichrist did not bring in everlasting righteousness. ..lol

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
INTERLINEAR:
And after the sevens sixty and two he shall be cut off anointed one and there is no to him and the city and the sanctuary he shall ruin people of governor the one coming and end of him in overflowing and until end war being decided ones being desolate.

The interlinear says after 69 weeks the Messiah would be cutoff, not in the middle of the 70th. The original language doesn't bear out a middle of 70, Keil & Delitzsch make it clear what the Hebrew says about verses 26 & 27.

After

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Interlinear:
And he has mastery covenant to many ones seven one and half of the seven he shall cause sacrifice and present offering and on wing of abominations one making desolate and until finish and one being decided she shall be poured forth on one being desolate.

He the Governor of the people who will come after the Anointed one is cutoff after 69 weeks, not the middle of 70, the governor who will come will form a covenant with the many people. The governor (unholy governor and anti-christ) according to Keil & Delitzsch, who is coming will cause the sacrifice and present offering and on wing of abominations, so the he in verse 27 makes abominations one making desolate. Notice too the he has a mastery covenant with many for 3 1/2 years. Christ never made a Covenant with any people that only lasted 3 1/2.

The current covenant of Grace applies to all who trust Christ in this present age. His Bride the church being built upon the foundation of Faith in Him, built upon the Covenant of Grace in the Dispensation of Grace.

The 7 last 7 years of Daniel has yet to be fulfilled for the governor to come has not yet made it, and the he as Keil and Delitzsch show in verse 27 is the anti-christ the ungodly prince, the one described in Revelation.

Keil and Delitzsch "Therefore the thought is this: That ungodly prince shall impose on the mass of the people a strong covenant that they should follow him and give themselves to him as their God. While the first clause of this verse announces what shall happen during the whole of the last week, the second treats only of the half of this period. We cannot grammatically otherwise interpret than the definition of time mentioned immediately before, and thus, for reasons give above, cannot take it as the subject of the clause, but only as the accusative of the duration of time, consequently not in the sense of the ablative: in the midst of the week."

In the midst of the 70th week the abomination that maketh desolate occurs, what week the 70th, therefore it can not be Christ for Messiah was cutoff after the 69th week.

Further more Keil and Delitzsch state that the governor who is coming is the same as Daniel 7:25 "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."
This is the same he as seen in verse 27, Keil and Delitzsch, Also “the taking away of the daily sacrifice combines itself in a natural way with the destruction (Daniel 9:26) of the city and the temple brought about by the הבּא נגיד;” - further, “he who here is represented as 'causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease' is obviously identical with him who changes (Daniel 7:25)"

So does Christ make abominations, does Christ speak great words against the most high?

Because that is the he in Daniel 9:27, the original bears it out.

 

[OldRegular]

Jesus Christ Fulfilled the promises of Daniel 24!

DHK insists that with the death of Jesus Christ none of the following happened:

Originally Posted by DHK {post#70}
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Yet unbelievably DHK says that they will all take place during the 70th week when the Anti-Christ is reigning. That folks is what you get from the false doctrine of dispensationalism.

I disagree strongly! If Jesus Christ did not fulfill the promises of Daniel 24 we are all still lost and in our sins.

In Daniel 24 we read:
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

There are six promises in this Scripture. The first three of these promises indicate things to be removed; the last three indicate things to be attained. Note that all six promises are to be accomplished during the seventy weeks. It is instructive to list these promises and then determine which have been fulfilled.

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy.
6. to anoint the most Holy.

There are several verses in the New testament that show that these promises were fulfilled through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

1. to finish the transgression

John 11:46-50, 53

46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Acts 2:22-24
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

The Jews "finished" their transgression when they Crucified Christ. That was their crowning offense. The Enormity of the crime of condemning Christ to death on the cross cannot be surpassed, and therefore it "finished" their Transgression.


2. to make an end of sins

Hebrews 10:12-14, KJV
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Galatians 1:4, KJV
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


3. to make reconciliation for iniquity.

Titus 2:14, KJV
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Hebrews 2:17, KJV
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


4. to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Now one could argue that everlasting righteousness was not accomplished during or after the First Advent of Jesus Christ, even among those who become His disciples. Neither can one argue that such righteousness exists during the “so-called” earthly millennial reign since even proponents of that earthly millennial reign contend that sin is merely restrained by the iron hand of Jesus Christ to spring forth into full bloom again when Satan is released from his chains. [Also one thousand years is not everlasting.] What, therefore is meant by ‘everlasting righteousness’? The most logical explanation is that this righteousness is the imputed righteousness bestowed on the believer because of his faith in Jesus Christ. This imputed righteousness is an everlasting righteousness.

Romans 3:22, KJV
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 5:1, KJV
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:21, KJV
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


5. to seal up the vision and prophecy.

Matthew Henry, B. H. Carroll, E. J. Young, and H. C. Leupold are in general agreement that this refers to a fulfillment and completion of Old Testament prophecy. By the completion of His mission Jesus Christ confirmed the truth of Old Testament prophecy. Paul in his letter to the Hebrews tells us that in Jesus Christ we have the fullest revelation of God:

Hebrews 1:1-4, KJV
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

With the completion of the New Testament, the final revelation of Jesus Christ as shown to the Apostle John, vision and prophecy are brought to an end, that is, sealed.


6. anoint the most Holy.

O. T. Allis in Prophecy and the Church indicates this may mean the entrance of Jesus Christ into Heaven itself when by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [Hebrews 9:12] for all His elect. Henry, Leupold, and Young believe that this refers to the anointing of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit. B. H. Carroll believes that “the most Holy” refers to the Church that Jesus Christ Himself established. The Church as used in this context refers to the Church universal, the entire body of ‘true believers’ or Saints. Carroll’s interpretation seems to be preferable, however, the Church can only be referred to as ‘most Holy’ only because She is sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:10, 14, KJV
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We read further about the Church:

2 Corinthians 11:2, KJV
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ephesians 2:19-22, KJV
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


1 Peter 2:9, KJV
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Hebrews 12:18-24, KJV
18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which [voice] they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

 

[OldRegular]

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
INTERLINEAR:
And after the sevens sixty and two he shall be cut off anointed one and there is no to him and the city and the sanctuary he shall ruin people of governor the one coming and end of him in overflowing and until end war being decided ones being desolate.

The interlinear says after 69 weeks the Messiah would be cutoff, not in the middle of the 70th. The original language doesn't bear out a middle of 70, Keil & Delitzsch make it clear what the Hebrew says about verses 26 & 27.

AFTER 69 weeks means he was slaughtered during the 70th week, that is unless you want to believe the mythology that dispensationalism has developed about the 70th week. But a literal reading, the hermeneutic dispensationalists claim to believe, means Jesus Christ was slaughtered in the 70th week!

And in that sacrificial death of Jesus Christ during the 70th week HE accomplished all six of the promises of Daniel 9:24 that DHK insists will be accomplished during the reign of the super-duper Anti-Christ. Can anyone believe that the Anti-Christ will accomplish that which the sacrifice of Jesus Christ could not. That is blasphemy in the highest degree especially when you consider what those six promises are:

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy.
6. to anoint the most Holy.

I have presented Scripture in post #116 showing that all these were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ!

But DHK refuses to answer the simple questions I have posed on numerous occasions.

Originally Posted by OldRegular

1. Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

2. Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ"? Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

 

[revmwc]

AFTER 69 weeks means he was slaughtered during the 70th week, that is unless you want to believe the mythology that dispensationalism has developed about the 70th week. But a literal reading, the hermeneutic dispensationalists claim to believe, means Jesus Christ was slaughtered in the 70th week!

The Hebrew word 'achar is used here for after, Thayer states the hinder part, that would be the end of the 69th week.

Strong's Concordance
achar: to remain behind, tarry

Strong's 310: as a substantive

hinder part

This would back the Thayer portion saying hinder part or the end of the 69th week, thus the Messiah was cutoff at the end of the 69th week. Concordances back it up, Daniel 9:26 says Messiah would be cut off at the hinder part of the 69th week. Very clear it was not in the 70th week.

 

[revmwc]

AFTER 69 weeks means he was slaughtered during the 70th week, that is unless you want to believe the mythology that dispensationalism has developed about the 70th week. But a literal reading, the hermeneutic dispensationalists claim to believe, means Jesus Christ was slaughtered in the 70th week!

And in that sacrificial death of Jesus Christ during the 70th week HE accomplished all six of the promises of Daniel 9:24 that DHK insists will be accomplished during the reign of the super-duper Anti-Christ. Can anyone believe that the Anti-Christ will accomplish that which the sacrifice of Jesus Christ could not. That is blasphemy in the highest degree especially when you consider what those six promises are:

1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy.
6. to anoint the most Holy.

I have presented Scripture in post #116 showing that all these were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ!

But DHK refuses to answer the simple questions I have posed on numerous occasions.

considering you haven't answered the question he posed to you why would you expect him to answer you?

 

[OldRegular]

The Hebrew word 'achar is used here for after, Thayer states the hinder part, that would be the end of the 69th week.

Strong's Concordance
achar: to remain behind, tarry

Strong's 310: as a substantive

hinder part

This would back the Thayer portion saying hinder part or the end of the 69th week, thus the Messiah was cutoff at the end of the 69th week. Concordances back it up, Daniel 9:26 says Messiah would be cut off at the hinder part of the 69th week. Very clear it was not in the 70th week.

Be Honest! Present all of Strongs:

0310. rxa ’achar akh-ar'; from 0309; properly, the hind part; generally used as an adverb or conjunction, after (in various senses):-- after (that, -ward), again, at, away from, back (from, -side), behind, beside, by, follow (after, -ing), forasmuch, from, hereafter, hinder end, + out (over) live, + persecute, posterity, pursuing, remnant, seeing, since, thence[-forth], when, with.