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Featured The Messianic Kingdom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, May 26, 2015.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Some dispensationalists love to quote Matthew Henry. Following is what he has to say about Daniel 9:24-27:

    [2.] It does serve still to refute and silence the expectations of unbelievers, who will not own that Jesus is he who should come, but still look for another. This prediction should silence them, and will condemn them; for, reckon these seventy weeks from which of the commandments to build Jerusalem we please, it is certain that they have expired above 1500 years ago; so that the Jews are for ever without excuse, who will not own that the Messiah has come when they have gone so far beyond their utmost reckoning for his coming. But by this we are confirmed in our belief of the Messiah's being come, and that our Jesus is he, that he came just at the time prefixed, a time worthy to be had in everlasting remembrance.

    2. The events here foretold are more plain and easy to be understood, at least to us now. Observe what is here foretold,

    (1.) Concerning the return of the Jews now speedily to their own land, and their settlement again there, which was the thing that Daniel now principally prayed for; and yet it is but briefly touched upon here in the answer to his prayer. Let this be a comfort to the pious Jews, that a commandment shall go forth to restore and to build Jerusalem, Da 9:25. And the commandment shall not be in vain; for though the times will be very troublous, and this good work will meet with great opposition, yet it shall be carried on, and brought to perfection at last. The street shall be built again, as spacious and splendid as ever it was, and the walls, even in troublous times. Note, as long as we are here in this world we must expect troublous times, upon some account or other. Even when we have joyous times we must rejoice with trembling; it is but a gleam, it is but a lucid interval of peace and prosperity; the clouds will return after the rain. When the Jews are restored in triumph to their own land, yet there they must expect troublous times, and prepare for them. But this is our comfort, that God will carry on his own work, will build up his Jerusalem, will beautify it, will fortify it, even in troublous times; nay, the troublousness of the times may by the grace of God contribute to the advancement of the church. The more it is afflicted the more it multiplies.

    (2.) Concerning the Messiah and his undertaking. The carnal Jews looked for a Messiah that could deliver them from the Roman yoke and give them temporal power and wealth, whereas they were here told that the Messiah should come upon another errand, purely spiritual, and upon the account of which he should be the more welcome.

    [1.] Christ came to take away sin, and to abolish that. Sin had made a quarrel between God and man, had alienated men from God and provoked God against man; it was this that put dishonour upon God and brought misery upon mankind; this was the great mischief-maker. He that would do God a real service, and man a real kindness, must be the destruction of this. Christ undertakes to be so, and for this purpose he is manifested, to destroy the works of the devil. He does not say to finish your transgressions and your sins, but transgression and sin in general, for he is the propitiation not only for our sins, that are Jews, but for the sins of the whole world. He came, First, To finish transgression, to restrain it (so some), to break the power of it, to bruise the head of that serpent that had done so much mischief, to take away the usurped dominion of that tyrant, and to set up a kingdom of holiness and love in the hearts of men, upon the ruins of Satan's kingdom there, that, where sin and death had reigned, righteousness and life through grace might reign. When he died he said, It is finished; sin has now had its death-wound given it, like Samson's, Let me die with the Philistines. Animamque in vulnere ponit--He inflicts the wound and dies. Secondly, To make an end of sin, to abolish it, that it may not rise up in judgment against us, to obtain the pardon of it, that it may not be our ruin, to seal up sins (so the margin reads it), that they may not appear or break out against us, to accuse and condemn us, as, when Christ cast the devil into the bottomless pit, he set a seal upon him, Re 20:3. When sin is pardoned it is sought for and not found, as that which is sealed up. Thirdly, To make reconciliation for iniquity, as by a sacrifice, to satisfy the justice of God and so to make peace and bring God and man together, not only as an arbitrator, or referee, who only brings the contending parties to a good understanding one of another, but as a surety, or undertaker, for us. He is not only the peace-maker, but the peace. He is the atonement.

    [2.] He came to bring in an everlasting righteousness. God might justly have made an end of the sin by making an end of the sinner; but Christ found out another way, and so made an end of sin as to save the sinner from it, by providing a righteousness for him. We are all guilty before God, and shall be condemned as guilty, if we have not a righteousness wherein to appear before him. Had we stood, our innocency would have been our righteousness, but, having fallen, we must have something else to plead; and Christ has provided us a plea. The merit of his sacrifice is our righteousness; with this we answer all the demands of the law; Christ has died, yea, rather, has risen again. Thus Christ is the Lord our righteousness, for he is made of God to us righteousness, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. By faith we apply this to ourselves and plead it with God, and our faith is imputed to us for righteousness, Ro 4:3,5. This is an everlasting righteousness, for Christ, who is our righteousness, and the prince of our peace, is the everlasting Father. It was from everlasting in the counsels of it and will be to everlasting in the consequences of it. The application of it was from the beginning, for Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; and it will be to the end, for he is able to save to the uttermost. It is of everlasting virtue (Heb 10:12); it is the rock that follows us to Canaan.

    [3.] He came to seal up the vision and prophecy, all the prophetical visions of the Old Testament, which had reference to the Messiah. He sealed them up, that is, he accomplished them, answered to them to a tittle; all things that were written in the law, the prophets, and the psalms, concerning the Messiah, were fulfilled in him. Thus he confirmed the truth of them as well as his own mission. He sealed them up, that is, he put an end to that method of God's discovering his mind and will, and took another course by completing the scripture-canon in the New Testament, which is the more sure word of prophecy than that by vision, 2Pe 1:19 Heb 1:1.

    [4.] He came to anoint the most holy, that is, himself, the Holy One, who was anointed (that is, appointed to his work and qualified for it) by the Holy Ghost, that oil of gladness which he received without measure, above his fellows; or to anoint the gospel-church, his spiritual temple, or holy place, to sanctify and cleanse it, and appropriate it to himself (Eph 5:26), or to consecrate for us a new and living way into the holiest, by his own blood (Heb 10:20), as the sanctuary was anointed, Ex 30:25, &c. He is called Messiah (Da 9:25-26), which signifies Christ--Anointed (Joh 1:41), because he received the unction both for himself and for all that are his.

    [5.] In order to all this the Messiah must be cut off, must die a violent death, and so be cut off from the land of the living, as was foretold, Isa 53:8. Hence, when Paul preaches the death of Christ, he says that he preached nothing but what the prophet said should come, Ac 26:22,23. And thus it behoved Christ to suffer. He must be cut off, but not for himself--not for any sin of his own, but, as Caiaphas prophesied, he must die for the people, in our stead and for our good,--not for any advantage of his own (the glory he purchased for himself was no more than the glory he had before, Joh 17:4-5); no; it was to atone for our sins, and to purchase life for us, that he was cut off.

    [6.] He must confirm the covenant with many. He shall introduce a new covenant between God and man, a covenant of grace, since it had become impossible for us to be saved by a covenant of innocence. This covenant he shall confirm by his doctrine and miracles, by his death and resurrection, by the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper, which are the seals of the New Testament, assuring us that God is willing to accept us upon gospel-terms. His death made his testament of force, and enabled us to claim what is bequeathed by it. He confirmed it to the many, to the common people; the poor were evangelized, when the rulers and Pharisees believed not on him. Or, heconfirmed it with many, with the Gentile world. The New Testament was not (like the Old) confined to the Jewish church, but was committed to all nations. Christ gave his life a ransom for many.

    [7.] He must cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. By offering himself a sacrifice once for all he shall put an end to all the Levitical sacrifices, shall supersede them and set them aside; when the substance comes the shadows shall be done away. He causes all the peace-offerings to cease when he has made peace by the blood of his cross, and by it confirmed the covenant of peace and reconciliation. By the preaching of his gospel to the world, with which the apostles were entrusted, he took men off from expecting remission by the blood of bulls and goats, and so caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The apostle in his epistle to the Hebrews shows what a better priesthood, altar, and sacrifice, we have now than they had under the law, as a reason why we should hold fast our profession.

    Continued:
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Continued from preceding post!

    Some dispensationalists love to quote Matthew Henry. Following is what he has to say about Daniel 9:24-27:

    (3.) Concerning the final destruction of Jerusalem, and of the Jewish church and nation; and this follows immediately upon the cutting off of the Messiah, not only because it was the just punishment of those that put him to death, which was the sin that filled up the measure of their iniquity and brought ruin upon them, but because, as things were, it was necessary to the perfecting of one of the great intentions of his death. He died to take away the ceremonial law, quite to abolish that law of commandments, and to vacate the obligation of it. But the Jews would not be persuaded to quit it; still they kept it up with more zeal than ever; they would hear no talk of parting with it; they stoned Stephen (the first Christian martyr) for saying that Jesus should change the customs which Moses delivered them (Ac 6:14); so that there was no way to abolish the Mosaic economy but by destroying the temple, and the holy city, and the Levitical priesthood, and that whole nation which so incurably doted on them. This was effectually done in less than forty years after the death of Christ, and it was a desolation that could never be repaired to this day. And this is it which is here largely foretold, that the Jews who returned out of captivity might not be overmuch lifted up with the rebuilding of their city and temple, because in process of time they would be finally destroyed, and not as now for seventy years only, but might rather rejoice in hope of the coming of the Messiah, and the setting up of his spiritual kingdom in the world, which should never be destroyed. Now,

    [1.] It is here foretold that the people of the prince that shall come shall be the instruments of this destruction, that is, the Roman armies, belonging to a monarchy yet to come (Christ is the prince that shall come, and they are employed by him in this service; they are his armies, Mt 22:7), or the Gentiles (who, though now strangers, shall become the people of the Messiah) shall destroy the Jews.

    [2.] That the destruction shall be by war, and the end of that war shall be this desolation determined. The wars of the Jews with the Romans were by their own obstinacy made very long and very bloody, and they issued at length in the utter extirpation of that people.

    [3.] That the city and sanctuary shall in a particular manner be destroyed and laid quite waste. Titus the Roman general would fain have saved the temple, but his soldiers were so enraged against the Jews that he could not restrain them from burning it to the ground, that this prophecy might be fulfilled.

    [4.] That all the resistance that shall be made to this destruction shall be in vain: The end of it shall be with a flood. It shall be a deluge of destruction, like that which swept away the old world, and which there will be no making head against.

    [5.] That hereby the sacrifice and oblation shall be made to cease. And it must needs cease when the family of the priests was so extirpated, and the genealogies of it were so confounded, that (they say) there is no man in the world that can prove himself of the seed of Aaron.

    [6.] that there shall be an overspreading of abominations, a general corruption of the Jewish nation and an abounding of iniquity among them, for which it shall be made desolate, 1Th 2:16. Or it is rather to be understood of the armies of the Romans, which were abominable to the Jews (they could not endure them), which overspread the nation, and by which it was made desolate; for these are the words which Christ refers to, Mt 24:15, When you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel, stand in the holy place, then let those who shall be in Judea flee, which is explained Lu 21:20, When you shall see Jerusalem encompassed with armies then flee.

    [7.] That the desolation shall be total and final: He shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, that is, he shall make it completely desolate. It is a desolation determined, and it will be accomplished to the utmost. And when it is made desolate, it should seem, there is something more determined that is to be poured upon the desolate (Da 9:27), and what should that be but the spirit of slumber (Ro 11:8,25), that blindness which has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles shall come in? And then all Israel shall be saved.
     
  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    What scripture shows Israel as a nation receiving all of this. Israel as Abraham's seed through Isaac and Jacob and the 12 tribes. That is what was promised to Daniel, not that these would fall to the church. The church received the same benefits that Adam and Eve received all the way through Salvation by Grace through faith. But the specific promises given to Abraham fall to Daniel's people, we are never called Daniel's people. We receive the inheritance of eternal life from Jesus, we will be in the Earthly Kingdom with Christ as the Bride. We will be spared the Time of Trial coming upon the earth all promised by Jesus to us His Bride the Church. Israel as nation never had the promise of not going through the time of Trial they had just the opposite, so if you see that the church receives all that Israel would have then you see us going through the Tribulation, when the ungodly prince, the anti-christ reigns upon the earth as seen in Daniel 9:24 and accomplished in Revelation.

    Sorry scripture doesn't bare that out.

    Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

    So you see the Gentiles as Daniel's People. You see that The Transgression of the Holy city Jerusalem is finished, in what way?

    You see and end of sin for the city of Jerusalem, when did it happen?

    You see the Holy city Jerusalem is now reconciled with god for iniquity, when did it occur?


    When has Jerusalem received everlasting righteousness?


    When was the Holy of Holies anointed?

    What New Testament verse did you use for that occurring to the Holy City Jerusalem? When did all this occur?

     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have already done so but not because of your suggestion. Your insistence that those questions are irrelevant show the extent of dispensational brainwashing in you. Pathetic!
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You don't pay attention to my posts nor even try to answer them. For example, your point about everlasting righteousness--I have answered it many times over. Why even bother asking it.

    Though Jesus has come and died, he never has brought in everlasting righteousness. In case you haven't noticed Israel is near the brink of war; Iran is arming Abbas and his cohorts; the enemies of Israel are speaking out against her and itching to attack her. ISIS has been waging war against all who are non-Muslim, especially Christians. This century has seen a greater persecution of Christians than any other. And yet you call this everlasting righteousness??
    Amazing! Do you have blinders on your eyes?
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    revmwc

    .

    From Philip Mauro;

    http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1921_mauro_seventy-weeks.html
    1. Confirming the covenant with many. We ignore for the present the words "for one week," which words would seem to limit the duration of the "covenant" to the short period of seven years. It will suffice for now to say that there is no preposition "for" in the text, and that the words "one week" do not refer to the duration of the covenant, but to the time when it was confirmed; for that covenant was confirmed by the shedding of the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:14-20) in "the one week," the last of the seventy which had been "determined." This will be clearly shown later on.Notice to who the 70 weeks involved, Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

    It did in the first century...at least the elect remnant of Israel.

    Earthly Jerusalem is no longer the Holy City.
    There is no longer a Holy place there.....it is done....desolate.





    from P Mauro;
    It is to be noted in this connection that the prominent feature of the new covenant is the forgiveness of sins (Jer. 31:34; Heb. 10:1- 18). Hence the significance of the Lord's words, "for the remission of sins." His mission in coining into the world was to "save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). That is the prominent feature of His gospel (Lu. 24:47; Acts 10:43).

    It is further to be noted that, although the promise of the New Covenant was made to the entire "house of Israel and house of Judah," not all of them entered into its benefits. Those who rejected Christ were "destroyed from among the people" (Acts 3:23). They were, as branches, "broken off" (Rom.-11:17). We see then the accuracy of Scripture in the words of the prophecy "with many," and those of the Lord Jesus "shed for many."

    This use of the word "many" is found in other like scriptures. Thus, in a similar prophecy it is written: "My righteous Servant shall justify many" (Isa. 53:11). Again, "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God,, (1,11. 1:16). This was said by the same heavenly messenger, Gabriel, when he announced to Zacharias the birth of it son. And yet again- this time from the lips of Simeon- "This Child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel" (Lu. 2:34). And yet once more, in the words of the Lord Jesus, "For the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many" (Matt. 20:28). In each of these scriptures the word "many" applies to those who receive by faith the benefits of the New Covenant which Christ made sure by the shedding of His blood upon the Cross



    Mt says it happened at the cross;
    Matthew 26:31

    Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

    PM-
    Take for instance the words "to make reconciliation (or atonement) for iniquity." There can be no uncertainty as to the meaning of this. To deny that reconciliation (or atonement) was fully and finally completed when Christ died and rose again would be to deny the very foundation of Christianity. Moreover, the true Israel - the believing part of Daniel's people-did enter immediately into the benefits of the atonement. Beyond all question, then, the 70th week of the prophecy was that in which Christ died and rose and ascended into heaven.



    The prophecy reveals, moreover, that the last heptad, or "week, " of the seventy was to be the most important era of all time, for that in that "week" the Messiah was to be cut off and have nothing (which act of wickedness by the Jews would "finish the transgression" and bring judgment upon them); and for that in it also the new covenant "with many" was to be confirmed in His blood (Matt. 26:28), the numerous sacrifices and oblations of the law were to be displaced by the "one sacrifice" of Christ (Heb. 10:9), an end was to be made of sins, reconciliation (or atonement) was to be made for iniquity, everlasting righteousness was to be brought in, and the most holy (place) was to be anointed. One has only to read with proper care the plain words of this great prophecy to see that it comes to its climax in the "week" in which the death and resurrection of Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit were to take place, that is to say, in the last, week of the seventy; and hence that to remove that week from its place in the series, and to "postpone" it to a time far in the future, simply makes havoc of the entire prophecy.


    Any rebuilt temple cannot be the "holy Place" after the cross heb10:19-14




    [/QUOTE]
    We would also call attention to a parallel between verses 26 and 27 (of Dan. 9). The first part of verse 26 foretells that after the threescore and two weeks Messiah shall be cut off; and the first part of verse 27 contains the parallel prediction; "And He shall confirm the covenant with many," "and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease." The second part of each verse speaks of the desolations of the city and sanctuary. This parallel affords further confirmation of the correctness of our reading of the prophecy.


    We have now completed our examination, clause by clause, of the wonderful prophecy of the Seventy Weeks. We have found-and without going beyond the Scriptures for our proofs -- a clear and satisfactory meaning for every statement, a meaning which is consistent with the scope and design of the prophecy as a whole. That prophecy has to do with the greatest of all subjects, the coming of Christ to Israel, and His rejection and crucifixion by Israel, with the marvellous consequences of His sacrifice for sins, and His victory over death and the grave.

    We have based nothing upon conjecture or surmise, and have not found it necessary to appeal to systems of chronology , which are admittedly defective and uncertain nor to rely upon any human authorities
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    We answer...you miss it every time.

    .


    The Cross has fully done this. Your lack of understanding of the Covenant nature of the Atonement and your dispensational stylings force you into error right here:wavey:

    The heathen rebellion against the Lord has nothing to do with the Accomplished work of the cross as King Jesus rules and reigns with a rod of Iron in the MIDST of His enemies;

    2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

    11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

    DHk....you should stop posting and learn what this Psalm is teaching about Jesus rule in the midst of His enemies.....:wavey:


    Psalm 110 King James Version (KJV)

    110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

    6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

    7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head


    The Apostles quote these two psalms in several places yet you and rev mac ignore this is a present reality....:thumbsup:
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Your problem is the same as that of the Jews who killed Jesus Christ. The Kingdom of God is a Spiritual Kingdom not of this world. Apparently you long for that carnal kingdom as did the Jews who conspired with hated Rome to murder their Messiah and my Savior! When you provide a direct answer to my three questions I will respond. Otherwise?
     
    #148 OldRegular, Jun 1, 2015
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbsup::applause::applause::thumbsup: That is exactly why people leave that system of thought.Everything they look for has existed and happened;

    a temple
    an anti Christ
    abomination of desolation
    roman empire
    an earthly holy place
    siege of Jerusalem

    they look for it to happen all over again ,instead of seeing it as finished
     
    #149 Iconoclast, Jun 1, 2015
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  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Icon,

    Thanks for the Mauro posts. I have it on my computer {Kindle app} but for some reason it shifts around so fast it is almost impossible to read.

    Mauro was a refugee from dispensationalism also! He obviously spent a lot of time in Bible study!
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Are the things which Jesus approves and speaks of "carnal"?

    The disciples asked Jesus this question (just before he ascended into heaven)
    Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
    --Now this was Peter and John, and the rest of the eleven--the real "carnal" Christians that you speak of.

    Jesus answered them:
    Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
    --He does not deny that there is a physical kingdom coming. He simply tells them it is not for now. It will be later. They have more important things to worry about--like the evangelization of the world.
    Will you at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
    --Not now, but eventually he will. Do you think that Peter and John were stupid after being taught by Jesus for 3.5 years.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I first read this on a small tract/ from chapel library when I was a dispensationalist.......I resisted it at first , until I said.....what if this is correct??? What would it mean? Would we live different, would we witness to the lost any different?

    I found there was Kingdom life beyond dispensational walls.....Hebrews and Jonathan Edwards forced the scales to fall from my eyes...[not strictly literal...:laugh::laugh:]
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Before Pentecost they did not fully understand.
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I see. So it is the Jews' fault that Christ couldn't keep his promise of making a covenant to who knows for seven years. And he broke it anyway, became a liar and a truce-breaker. It is unbelievable what you make Christ into. Mark this, this is not what I believe, but what you believe about Christ.
    You say Christ made a covenant with someone for seven years, but you can't say when, where, with who.
    Then you say he broke the covenant half way through. But you are not sure whether to put the blame on himself, or the Jews and the Romans? Was not Christ responsible for his own decisions?
    Then you don't know when this covenant would have ended even though it says at the end of seven years. But who did he make it with that it would end at the term of seven years and why was that significant. And why would he be a truce-breaker and break a covenant of seven years half way in between. What a sinner you have made out of Christ. Terrible!!
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Right, they should have made you their leader, because they were all a bunch of dummies!

    Christ never denied a coming Kingdom. He only reminded them it was not "now."
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I said that was the New Covenant for the many and posted Scripture to prove it. I am sorry you have such a poor understanding of Scripture. You need to kick that dispensational monkey of your back!
    That is an outright lie and you know it DHK.

    I said that through HIS sacrificial death on the Cross the bloody sacrifices were no longer necessary. Scripture puts it this way: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. The continuation of these useless sacrifices by the Jewish priests was an abomination before GOD and HE brought them to an end in 70AD.

    You take the typical dispensational approach. If you don't understand the Scripture you attempt to tell those who differ with you what they believe.

    {One more thing: It is a fact that Jesus Christ was crucified because of a conspiracy by the priests to have HIM murdered. I have posted Scripture proving that. It is also true that when Pilate would have freed Jesus Christ they blackmailed Pilate by saying they would lie to Caesar and I have posted Scripture proving that.}
     
  17. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    You continue to say Christ is the he of Daniel 9:27 when scripture doesn't bare that out. The language and use of the term proves that from verse 26b to 27 aligns the He with Daniel 7:25 "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." The times time and dividing of time is the 3 1/2 years of the last part of the 70th week. So that the same he in 9:24 will make a covenant and force it upon many, he shall cause the sacrifice to cease. The Language of Daniel bares that fact out.
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You still have that dispensational monkey on your back so you cannot understand what God is using Daniel to teach. Therefore, you take the traditional dispensational tactic of putting lying words in the mouth those who reject the false doctrine of dispensationalism. It is not I who is accusing Jesus Christ of being a liar and a sinner. It is you, DHK. May GOD have mercy on you for that blasphemy!
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Go back and read Matthew Henry comments I posted. You like to use his comments when you think they support the false doctrine of dispensationalism.
     
  20. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The new covenant doesn't trump the promises God made, it establishes a new way in which God deals with mankind in worship. what has always remained a constant with God is the fact that Grace by Faith has always and will always save man. Prior to the Law the father of the family was the priest. When CAin and Abel came of age they were required to offer a blood sacrifice, Cain failed to believe God and offer a proper sacrifice. The means of salvation for them is seen in Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

    Notice something really important, the savior who was promised, the one who will eventually crush the head of satan is the seed of woman not of man. The Virgin birth seen in the promise. They had to believe God would send a redeemer who would be born of a virgin and who would crush the head of satan. That faith in the savior to come saved them, just as Faith in The Savior who has come saves us.

    The dispensations just teach how God has dealt with mankind through worship each a progression from the next. For the Jew in the Law age it was through offering sacrifices for the sins revealed by the Law that is scripture. The method of salvation came by the same means through out each and will come by the same means in the Tribulation. By Grace through faith. What really changed for us is that the Holy Spirit comes into us and indwells us you will not find that in the O.T.
     
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