1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Smoking

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by wpe3bql, Jun 7, 2015.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2015
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    13
    More than likely, you've probably heard/read different Christians (Baptist or otherwise) make comments about smoking cigarettes, cigars, etc.

    I've heard comments ranging from, "Y'all gotta problem wit dat??!!" to saying that the three Hebrew children in Daniel 3 wouldn't be welcomed in some Baptist churches since they didn't even have the smell of fire on their clothes!

    Some have even suggested that tobacco is the Native American Indians' "revenge" on the European Caucasians who found their way to North America c. 1500 ff A.D.

    Now, I personally haven't found any "Thou shalt not smoke" in God's Word. The nearest principle I know of would be found in I Corinthians 3:16-17 where it warns us Christians not to "defile the 'temple.'" (Which, BTW, immediately follows a description of the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ.)

    So.....is smoking a sin for which a Christian will be accounted at the Bema?

    Why, or why not? Please support your position(s) with appropriate Bible references.

















    (Yeah...........I fully realize that I'm holding a can of live fish bait in my hands!!) :tonofbricks:
     
    #1 wpe3bql, Jun 7, 2015
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    12 But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble;
    13 each man`s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man`s work of what sort it is. 1 Cor 3

    I don't think the indulgence of the flesh by smoking would constitute gold, silver, or costly stones here, would you? But:

    15 If any man`s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. 1 Cor 3

    Smokers who love the Lord take heart.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jun 7, 2015
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Smoking feeds a nicotine based addition and thus would fall under "pharmakeia" i.e. the use of drugs, and is listed at Galatians 5:20.

    Sometimes the word is translated witchcraft or sorcery, but since it is mentioned with drunkenness, I think the idea is to avoid substance abuse.
     
    #3 Van, Jun 7, 2015
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,493
    Likes Received:
    3,043
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm from Kentucky. I grew up immersed in tobacco. It's really hard for me to view some of the very fine people I've known who smoked tobacco in the same category as drunkards.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2015
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,756
    Likes Received:
    795
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How disappointing. I thought I was about to join a discussion of smoking meats!

    I think smoking is a bad habit/addiction and everyone is better off without it. That said, I think it is a relatively minor issue compared to the sins that God is most concerned about.

    When people used to criticize B.H. Carroll, the founder of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, for his frequent enjoyment of cigars, he would point them to the scripture where God is depicted blowing smoke out of his nostrils and mouth:

    Psalm 18:8 and 2 Samuel 22:9
    Smoke went up out of His nostrils,
    And fire from His mouth devoured;
    Coals were kindled by it.
     
    #5 Baptist Believer, Jun 7, 2015
  6. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    11,154
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Without running the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread, it is amazing to me that a lot of Baptists, and other church members, see little wrong with drinking or smoking.

    I agree with your opinion; a hundred times over! :thumbs:
     
    #6 righteousdude2, Jun 7, 2015
  7. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    11,154
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with your view and use of scripture to describe both drinking and smoking in the eyes of God. However, I am sure those who do drink and smoke, will in fact argue that if done in moderation or socially, is therefore, acceptable!
     
    #7 righteousdude2, Jun 7, 2015
  8. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2015
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    13
    Told yah!! The lid on that can of live fish bait got opened life REAL soon, y'all!! :thumbs:

    Seriously, one of the many sermons I recall by the late (& great) pastor I had from 1969-1972, Pastor David C. Auckland at Faith BC in Sellersville PA (later a professor @ Maranatha) was on this very topic.

    A few years later, when I was a student at Clarksville (TN) Baptist College, I came across a little paperback book by Robert A. Morey and published by Baker [(c) 1973] entitled The Bible and Drug Abuse.

    Apparently this book (ISBN 0-8010-5944-5 ) isn't available any more (Amazon doesn't list it.).

    Morey devotes his Chapter 6, "Sorcery and Drugs," to what Van posted. (And this was some 40+ years ago.)

    Subsequently, I'm positive there have been a plethora of works dealing with this topic.

    My parting shot on this is ..... pharmakia (From which, of course, we get our words "pharmacy," "pharmacist," etc.) most often appears in Revelation as either "sorcery" or "witchcraft."

    Interesting that the NT book that deals mostly with "the end times" is where you'll find the most usage of this word. H'mmmm.

    At any rate, let's continue to "Put it in y'all's pipe and smoke it" on smokin'. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #8 wpe3bql, Jun 8, 2015
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    If people choose to smoke, they are no less Christians that those who do not. However, if it is controlling your life - you cannot stop, it affects those around you negatively, etc. - then it may be time to consider stopping. It certainly isn't healthy!

    On the other hand, it was smoking in an office that resurrected my husband's asthma when he was in his early 20s. Everyone in his office smoked and he ended up in the ER more times than I can count. He had asthma as a boy but it went away only to come back when he started working for this particular company. He now has only 70% lung capacity and has significant scarring that can be seen on chest x-rays. Fortunately, smoking is no longer really socially acceptable and we have not had to experience being around smoke in many years although a good friend of ours smokes but just not when we're around. But if he is ever around cigarette smoke, it could seriously injure him so I'm glad that culturally, it is no longer acceptable/allowed to smoke in public.
     
    #9 annsni, Jun 8, 2015
  10. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We have many and varied ways of rationalizing our addictions, including denial that there is a problem. I was puffing two plus packs of Winston Red when the Lord took them from me in Nov. 87. I still have trouble with the temptation. Some have said nicotine is more addictive than heroin. They may be right.

    Now we are going for legal cannabis--recreational for sure.

    "what so ever is not of Faith is sin"

    It is hard to be a new creature in Christ while holding to filthy habits of the flesh which make us appear conforming to the world--which causing brethren to stumble. There is that sin issue again.

    Now what? Whatever happened to PA and Bull Durham?

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #10 Bro. James, Jun 8, 2015
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Would this also not apply to caffeine? I'm not a smoker, just wondering.
     
    #11 JonC, Jun 8, 2015
  12. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2015
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    13
    Guess y'all'd say that my late father (1907-1963) "cured" me from wanting to imbibe/ingest the dee-lites y'all gits from smokin'.

    Was he saved? I have no idea, mainly cause I wasn't saved until some 3 years later & in a far different location.

    Anyway, as a child I'd hear him nightly cough out what seemed to be his entire lungs, etc. My late mother (1913-2003) would always point out this fact to me.

    Most of the men of both sides of my family were to some degree smokers. One of my uncles spent his latter years attached to a pair of oxygen cylinders. Another seemed to just grow weaker and weaker.

    Ultimately my father died of a deeply-implanted brain tumor. Was it "assisted" by the residue of his smoking? Don't know for sure, but I don't imagine that it was helped by it.

    Yes, I know ..... There but by the grace of God was I delivered from smoking and "drinkin' likker" prior to my salvation. :godisgood:

    Moreover, I KNOW it's a struggle for some people regardless of their eternal standing before Almighty God. (A look at our church's parking areas, etc., will testify to that.)

    Jest a-sayin'.
     
    #12 wpe3bql, Jun 8, 2015
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, smoking is unhealthy. My father, a very godly Christian, died at 52 from lung cancer (granted, part of this was cultural...I remember growing up many of the men, most deacons, would be in the breezeway smoking between Sunday School and service. It is not something that I would automatically classify as a sin, but it is an addiction.
     
    #13 JonC, Jun 8, 2015
  14. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    18,441
    Likes Received:
    259
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Smoking is a sin as it harms the body, the temple of God as so stated in Cor. 3:16.
     
    #14 Crabtownboy, Jun 8, 2015
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I see how you make that connection (smoking, bad diet, caffeine, no exercise, etc). I am not sure the passage you use is about things like smoking but I see the connection you are making.
     
    #15 JonC, Jun 8, 2015
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lets back up to the principle, does the Bible teach substance abuse is sin? If not, what is in view in Galatians 5:20? Once we understand what God's teaching is, then we can quibble over our differing individual applications. :)
     
    #16 Van, Jun 8, 2015
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree.

    φαρμακεία is used 3 times and is derived from φαρμακεύς (poisoner, i.e., sorcerer). Here are the verses in question:

    Galatians 5:19-20 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery (φαρμακεία) , enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

    Revelation 9:21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries (φαρμακεία)nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

    Revelation 18:23 and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery (φαρμακεία).

    Since φαρμακεία is derived from φαρμακεύς, I am satisfied that the definition may include the use of drugs, but in a specific context. I find no evidence that it means taking a medication/drug that may be addictive per se, but instead has in mind occult practice (witchcraft). Another principle you we need to consider is how the word is used. If it does mean addictive drugs, then it includes medications that we would use today as well as medications that we now consider harmful. Sin does not change merely because the culture changes (i.e., if cocaine is a sin now then it was when used as a medication. If marijuana is a sin to the addict, it is a sin to the cancer patient). But there is no evidence that this is what the word means.

    So Galatians 5:20 is not specifically referring to substance abuse, but the practice of sorcery. Although I believe it taking a passage severely out of context, a better argument against smoking is the understanding that our bodies are temples of God. The only legitimate argument, however, that I can think of is the impact that smoking will have on one's witness (just like drinking, which is also not the healthiest choice). And this is cultural (I've seen the first two episodes of Mad Men :smilewinkgrin: ).
     
    #17 JonC, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2015
  18. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    101
    Smoking isn't a sin.

    You simply can't make it into one. If you try to use certain NT Scriptures about the body being a Temple I hope you never go to McDonalds or put any kind of candy in your body either. And you better work out seven days a week to keep your Temple in tip-top shape.

    I don't think smoking is a good idea, but can't condemn someone to sinfulness if they do.
     
    #18 preachinjesus, Jun 9, 2015
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As a former smoker of more than 19 years I can say with all confidence that intentionally lighting something on fire and inhaling the smoke from it is stupid.
     
    #19 Revmitchell, Jun 9, 2015
  20. Servent

    Servent Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stupid yes ( used smokeless tobacco for 30 yrs ) Sin don't see it.
     
    #20 Servent, Jun 9, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...