The same Children....Jn6.....Hebrews 2

[revmwc]

Rmc

Hebrews 11 is the faith chapter and that is great all by itself......

This thread however is about the children given from The Father to The Son.

Try and address that idea.

1 jn 2 dealing with propitiation is also a good topic and yet that also is not the topic of this thread.

It looks like you are still not understanding biblical propitiation yet.....perhaps we can have a thread or two on it.

Yes......you are raising issues....now your dispensation of grace idea......not the focus here.

Focus on the children given by the Father.....

The children given to the Son are those whom God Foreknew would recieve Christ and therefore were Predestinated to be conformed to the image of the Son.

Romans 8:29-31
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Now the word for foreknow in the Greek is "proegnO" He Before Knew" and therefore "proOrisen" He Before Seizes."

Thayer gives the word foreknow as "proginosko" which means to have knowledge before hand, to foreknow, of those whom God elected to salvation to predestinate. Again He had knowledge of beforehand, that is knowledge of them before He chose them.

He knew them that would be totally knew them and thus seized or Predestined them and those were given to Christ based on the choice He knew they would make. He Knew everything about them before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-5,
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Confirms those who are Christ are those who were chosen before the Foundation of the world that is chosen as Romans 8 says by God's Foreknowledge. How do we know that because both say we were predestinated.
Why were we predestinated because He knew us totally and without doubt knew everything about us even to the Choice we would make about salvation.

Christ was sent as the appeasing sacrifice for sin so that those who choose not to believe would have no argument that God didn't give them a chance.

How do we know that God knew us everything about us,

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

He knew every person who would call upon Christ. Paul said "The Lord knoweth them that are his." He "egno" Knew. Thayer uses "ginosko " to learn to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel, to become known, to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of to understand, to know, Jewish idiom for intimacy between a man and a women. To become acquainted, to know.

He knew all about those He chose and gave to Christ because of His omniscience He knew us before the foundation of the world and chose us to be adopted and conformed to Christ.

Notice it wasn't a random selection as some teach, He Foreknew that knew all about us and the sin we would sin and yet He knew too that we would Call upon His Name and Believe on the Son for salvation and thus we were predestinated.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

I don't want a thread of Spurgeon quotes. That is not my purpose.
I gave you one solid sermon on a text on John 3:36 which, if exegeted properly, requires one to admit that one must believe in order to be saved. Spurgeon knew that and is honest in his exegesis.

Every biblical Calvinist believes this.....

MONSTER STRAWMAN ALERT...DHK IS AT IT AGAIN

The Calvinists here are not honest but cling to their Calvinism in spite of what the Bible says.

Calvinism is the biblical truth that you do not understand.

Spurgeon set aside his Calvinism when the Bible said otherwise. He admitted as much.

Spurgeon set aside nothing....He does not have to. If you understood biblical Calvinism you would not make this foolish clown statement.
Calvinism has the biblical balance that you lack.

They confess all the five points of Calvinism, but they have not come to the one most needful point of looking unto Jesus, that they may be saved.
--But your devotion to Calvin and your pride won't allow you to do the same.

Spurgeon and other biblical calvinists are not afraid to challenge the sheep to self examine where they are in life.

 

[DHK]

DHK



Every biblical Calvinist believes this.....

MONSTER STRAWMAN ALERT...DHK IS AT IT AGAIN

Calvinism is the biblical truth that you do not understand.

You are a hyper-Calvinist. Spurgeon would call you that. He does not believe what you believe.

Spurgeon set aside nothing....He does not have to. If you understood biblical Calvinism you would not make this foolish clown statement.
Calvinism has the biblical balance that you lack.

Spurgeon honestly exegeted the scriptures no matter what the truth of Scripture said. If it opposed Calvinism he would preach it any way. In fact many times the Calvinists were angry at him because he preached against a limited atonement.

Spurgeon and other biblical calvinists are not afraid to challenge the sheep to self examine where they are in life.

There is no such thing as "Biblical Calvinist."

Here is what you said, just for a reminder:

no...they can hear the historic facts and claims of the gospel. but they CANNOT savingly grasp it unless enabled to by God.

--There is no possible way that Spurgeon agrees with that. The whole first paragraph of his sermon is entirely opposed to what you believe. Read it for yourself

The persons here spoken of are those who believe not the Son of God. Jesus Christ, out of infinite mercy, has come into the world, has taken upon himself our nature, and in that nature has suffered the just for the unjust, to bring us to God. By reason of his sufferings, the gospel message is now proclaimed to all men, and they are honestly assured that "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." The unhappy persons in this text will not believe in Jesus Christ, they reject God's way of mercy; they hear the gospel, but refuse obedience to its command. Let it not be imagined that these individuals are necessarily avowed sceptics, for many of them believe much of revealed truth. They believe the Bible to be the word of God; they believe there is a God; they believe that Jesus Christ is come into the world as a Savior; they believe most of the doctrines which cluster around the cross. Alas! they may do this, but yet the wrath of God abideth on them, if they believe not the Son of God. It may surprise you to learn that many of these persons are very much interested in orthodoxy. They believe that they have discovered the truth, and they exceedingly value those discoveries, so that they frequently grow very warm in temper with those who differ from them. They have read much, and they are matters of argument in the defense of what they consider to be sound doctrine. They cannot endure heresy, and yet sad is the fact, that believing what they do, and knowing so much, they have not believed the Son of God. They believe the doctrine of election, but they have not the faith of God's elect: they swear by final perseverance, but persevere in unbelief. They confess all the five points of Calvinism, but they have not come to the one most needful point of looking unto Jesus, that they may be saved. They accept in creed the truths that are assuredly believed among us, but they have not received that faithful saying, worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; at any rate, they have not received it personally and practically for their souls' salvation.

There is hardly a statement in there that you believe.

They have all the knowledge they need to know but will not believe the gospel. They understand it, but will not believe it. They understand all the points of Calvinism (as Spurgeon defines them), but will not believe Christ.

It seems obvious that Spurgeon does not believe in reprobation as you do.

 

[Rippon]

In fact many times the Calvinists were angry at him because he preached against a limited atonement.

You are all over the place. Spurgeon was a Calvinist. He was opposed to hyper-Calvinism. He did not preach against Particular Redemption --he advocated it in numerous sermons.

There is no such thing as "Biblical Calvinist."

In your world water must not be wet.

 

[DHK]

You are all over the place. Spurgeon was a Calvinist. He was opposed to hyper-Calvinism. He did not preach against Particular Redemption --he advocated it in numerous sermons.

I note that you did not deny anything I said.

 

[Iconoclast]

revmwc

The children given to the Son are those whom God Foreknew would recieve Christ

This is a falsehood as posted. you insist on a wrong definition of Foreknow.

and therefore were Predestinated

to be conformed to the image of the Son.

this also must be wrong

Now the word for foreknow in the Greek is "proegnO" He Before Knew" and therefore "proOrisen" He Before Seizes."

Thayer gives the word foreknow as "proginosko" which means to have knowledge before hand, to foreknow, of those whom God elected to salvation to predestinate. Again He had knowledge of beforehand, that is knowledge of them before He chose them.

He knew them that would be totally knew them and thus seized or Predestined them and those were given to Christ based on the choice He knew they would make. He Knew everything about them before the foundation of the world.

Confirms those who are Christ are those who were chosen before the Foundation of the world that is chosen as Romans 8 says by God's Foreknowledge. How do we know that because both say we were predestinated.
Why were we predestinated because He knew us totally and without doubt knew everything about us even to the Choice we would make about salvation.

Christ was sent as the appeasing sacrifice for sin so that those who choose not to believe would have no argument that God didn't give them a chance.

How do we know that God knew us everything about us,

He knew every person who would call upon Christ. Paul said "The Lord knoweth them that are his." He "egno" Knew. Thayer uses "ginosko " to learn to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel, to become known, to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of to understand, to know, Jewish idiom for intimacy between a man and a women. To become acquainted, to know.

He knew all about those He chose and gave to Christ because of His omniscience He knew us before the foundation of the world and chose us to be adopted and conformed to Christ.

Notice it wasn't a random selection as some teach, He Foreknew that knew all about us and the sin we would sin and yet He knew too that we would Call upon His Name and Believe on the Son for salvation and thus we were predestinated.

[/QUOTE]

You describe God as a spectator and not really God. This has to be rejected.

 

[DHK]

He knew them that would be totally knew them and thus seized or Predestined them and those were given to Christ based on the choice He knew they would make.

Saay Whaaaat?????????

 

[Rippon]

I note that you did not deny anything I said.

Of course I did.

# 1 C.H.S. was a Calvinist. It is as plain as day. He was a five-pointer. Not that that encompasses the whole of Calvinism --it does not. But he was in agreement with the Canons of Dort.

"Many times Calvinists [fellow Calvinists] were angry with him because he preached against a limited atonement."

Spurgeon was himself a fellow Calvinist. How could his fellow Calvinists be angry with him regarding Particular Redemption? And you emphasized your error by saying "many times."

Please document your charges.

Spurgeon preached on the subject of Particular Redemption --in its favor.

You need to stop reading through the lens of David Cloud. Your vision of spurgeon is blurred.

You haven't the foggiest idea of any distinction between Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinists were against his ministry. He loved them as brothers in the Lord, but they took things too far.

 

[Iconoclast]

Saay Whaaaat?????????

:laugh::laugh: I missed putting a quote around that line...which belongs to Rmac:thumbsup: take it up with him...lol

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

You are a hyper-Calvinist

.

You cannot describe a hyper Calvinist

you cannot describe a Calvinist,

The only thing you do well is bear false witness breaking the 9th commandment daily as a habit.

Spurgeon would call you that.

Spurgeon would own me as a brother .

He does not believe what you believe.

He believed most of what I believe without a doubt.

Spurgeon honestly exegeted the scriptures no matter what the truth of Scripture said.

Yes...that is why all Cals like Spurgeon...many non cals enjoy his sermons also. The fact is you do not have the theological acumen to understand half of what you are reading in his sermons:laugh: You think you are posting aginst us, but we understand the sermons and enjoy them:laugh:

If it opposed Calvinism he would preach it any way.

Nothing in scripture opposes Calvinism. It is the biblical truth explained.

In fact many times the Calvinists were angry at him because he preached against a limited atonement.

This is a lie...something you do everyday and have grown used to it.

Such lies as this need to be exposed. You say you do not want threads on Spurgeon and yet you even bear false witness against him.
If i take the time to post quote after quote, I will also take the time to re-post your flat out lie. I am not going to hear you offer some lame retraction either...[ oh...it looks like I was mistaken}:laugh:

There is no such thing as "Biblical Calvinist."

They are everywhere DHK....we will pray that some come into the church you attend and throw you out with your truth denying ideas.

Here is what you said, just for a reminder:

no...they can hear the historic facts and claims of the gospel. but they CANNOT savingly grasp it unless enabled to by God.

I stand by what i post. Unless God allows someone to savingly understand these truths, or any truth for that matter...they cannot.

You claiming I am a Hyper-cal might be exhibit number 1 of this fact.

--There is no possible way that Spurgeon agrees with that. The whole first paragraph of his sermon is entirely opposed to what you believe. Read it for yourself

There is hardly a statement in there that you believe.

I believe most all of what Spurgeon says in the main. There are some things I do not agree on.

They have all the knowledge they need to know but will not believe the gospel. They understand it, but will not believe it. They understand all the points of Calvinism (as Spurgeon defines them), but will not believe Christ.

It seems obvious that Spurgeon does not believe in reprobation as you do.

He did...I will show it and then further expose you for who and what you are:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course I did.

# 1 C.H.S. was a Calvinist. It is as plain as day. He was a five-pointer. Not that that encompasses the whole of Calvinism --it does not. But he was in agreement with the Canons of Dort.

"Many times Calvinists [fellow Calvinists] were angry with him because he preached against a limited atonement."

Spurgeon was himself a fellow Calvinist. How could his fellow Calvinists be angry with him regarding Particular Redemption? And you emphasized your error by saying "many times."

Please document your charges.

Spurgeon preached on the subject of Particular Redemption --in its favor.

You need to stop reading through the lens of David Cloud. Your vision of spurgeon is blurred.

You haven't the foggiest idea of any distinction between Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinists were against his ministry. He loved them as brothers in the Lord, but they took things too far.

I believe you are correct about DHK listening to David Cloud and these other bogus sites. His posts grow more and more deranged:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[revmwc]

Saay Whaaaat?????????

God knew them i.e. he knew everything about them even the choice they would make for salvation and were therefore predestinated the greek word means seized so He seized them and called them to be his adopted Children and conformed to the image of His dear Son.

The quote was from my post I believe.

 

[Iconoclast]

God knew them i.e. he knew everything about them even the choice they would make for salvation and were therefore predestinated the greek word means seized so He seized them and called them to be his adopted Children and conformed to the image of His dear Son.

The quote was from my post I believe.

DHK reacted because he thought I posted it...now he knows it was your post he says nothing:laugh::laugh::laugh:.. No agenda:wavey:

 

[DHK]

God knew them i.e. he knew everything about them even the choice they would make for salvation and were therefore predestinated the greek word means seized so He seized them and called them to be his adopted Children and conformed to the image of His dear Son.

The quote was from my post I believe.

No problem. The way the statement was written was a bit confusing to me. That is all.

 

[Iconoclast]

No problem. The way the statement was written was a bit confusing to me. That is all.

Yeah.....I am sure that was it..lol