Yes? No? What do you say?
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Is carnal christianity biblically correct?
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
- Start date
It is difficult to know exactly what you are looking for here based on the wording of the op/title.
Are you asking if it is possible to be a Christian and be carnal at the same time?
Are you asking if it is possible to be a Christian and be carnal at the same time?
Can a christian live a carnal lifestyle? Sorry if I was too vague. Google it and see what you think. Thanks in advance.
Google it?....................
That way you can get pro and con posts and see which you agree with.
This teaching teaches christians can live carnally for years.
http://www.gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html
This teaching teaches christians can live carnally for years.
http://www.gotquestions.org/carnal-Christian.html
I know what Paul thought!... Maybe this will answer your question
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.... Brother Glen
Is that how you decided by googling it?
I can do my own research thanks.
We live in bodies that have not yet received redemption. We sin and we fail God. Paul noted himself to be the chief of sinners. The moment we sin we are doing so through the carnal mind. The difficulty for Christians to live in sin is that we have the Holy Ghost who now indwells in us. He convicts internally and living continually in a carnal state should be difficult for Christians.
In Hebrews we are told that those who God loves He chastises and corrects. It is not likely God would leave one of His children in sin for any length of time.
What we do not know is how patient is God when His children sin. Is He patient enough to wait on them for years? Scripture is not clear on this but My guess would be no. We do know that when we continue in sin as His children God will correct us.
I would also say that those who have stepped away from the Lord for very long should be more worried about whether they are saved at all then they are trying to defend being saved and carnal at the same time. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
Yes. IMO, most do, unwittingly or not, but God is faithful and changes not, therefore they are not consumed.
Paul gives a list of persons who are living a "carnal" lifestyle....{THEY ARE CARNAL IN THE HEART}
He says DO NOT BE DECEIVED,,,,if any person lives in a way where they can be categorized by these sins they are not Christians at all;
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
He says DO NOT BE DECEIVED,,,,if any person lives in a way where they can be categorized by these sins they are not Christians at all;
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
So Icon, were these carnal 'babes in Christ' bound for eternal damnation?:
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3
My point is many, if not most, never grow to the maturity of Mt 13:23 and "beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty".
But you LSer types don't see it that way, do you?
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3
My point is many, if not most, never grow to the maturity of Mt 13:23 and "beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty".
But you LSer types don't see it that way, do you?
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Hello Kyred,
I keep it simple on this K......all Christians sin. In 1 cor2/3 they were picking men one over another and "acting out of character" in this sin...paul tells them they were behaving as if they were unsaved men, as unsaved natural men. He rebukes them saying as believers they are to exhibit Kingdom behaviour.
Some were new believers,{babes} so sure there was some wrong attitudes.
Did all of them even have scriptures? they lacked teaching as gentiles, Paul was rebuking them to get them up to speed.
For anyone to suggest that a person can constantly grieve the Spirit habitually is to be deceived.....RM had a good take on this:thumbs:
Jesus is Lord over every aspect of our lives... we are to pray for strength to mortify all known sin, and to serve him. Saints perservere by God's grace...
I believe this verse means what it says...and I think you do also ;
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Good post....:thumbsup::thumbs::applause:
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3
So if some 'didn't get up to speed' it means they were never 'saved' to begin with and bound for eternity in hell, right?
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? I Cor 3
So if some 'didn't get up to speed' it means they were never 'saved' to begin with and bound for eternity in hell, right?
This is not a simple question because common practice/teaching and biblical practice/teaching are often different today. Since faith in Christ is not just a matter of acknowledging facts, but instead, active trust of a Person, you can't draw hard and fast lines. God, in His grace, will meet people where they are, but certainly won't leave them there.
If one gives everything they know themselves to be (all of their person) to all they know Christ to be, they will enter into life.
Yes, it is possible for at least a short time. However, God does not leave people in their sinful habits without pulling them forward in sanctification. If someone says they have met the Maker of the universe and it hasn't had a profound effect on them, they are a liar or severely deceived. The letter of 1 John directly addresses how one can have confidence that they are in Christ's eternal life.
No, it is not. A presentation of the gospel that doesn't naturally lead to discipleship and practical sanctification is not a true and/or complete gospel.
Doesn't matter what any of us think. What did Jesus say? Probably His most straightforward and vivid ways He characterized entering into His life was to call us to "take up our cross" and follow Him. In that day, a person carrying a cross was technically alive, but they were as good as dead. They were steps away from the end of their lives, under the condemnation of a greater authority. At the same time, Jesus turned that into a promise of a new beginning where are lives are found in following Him.
If one gives everything they know themselves to be (all of their person) to all they know Christ to be, they will enter into life.
It sounds like you're saying those God has sanctified will indeed live sanctified lives because God will force them to do it. There'll be NO choice on their part between the flesh and the Spirit. His children WILL be spiritual.
You got scripture for that?
I'll agree that there's a point that God won't 'leave His redeemed in their sinful habits', they'll reap for what they've sowed, and He may even 'take them out':
20 When therefore ye assemble yourselves together, it is not possible to eat the Lord`s supper:
21 for in your eating each one taketh before other his own supper; and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep. 1 Cor 11
1 It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father`s wife.
5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor 5
But please by all means prove to me that all His children will absolutely become committed productive citizens of the kingdom because He is going to make them do so.
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In any assembly the possibility of false professors exists.
Only God can make that judgment.
Paul makes it clear the man in chapter 5 was to be put out of the assembly.
Mt 7 makes it clear there are many deceived persons....
I take the warning passages very seriously. ...
The scriptures teach true saints will continue on as Jesus said in jn 8...if you continue in my word. ....then you are my disciples.
In any assembly of true saints.....others come in who are not really saints..like a barnacle attaches to a boat,but is not part of the boat.....these tares will be judged as judgment begins at the house of God.
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If they have made a series of choices of faith, they will have both the desire and ability to be transformed. Choice is always involved, but they will want to do what is right because God has done a work in their hearts. Moreover, the Holy Spirit indwells them.
Wow. It's all over the New Testament, from the Gospels to Revelation. Probably the most direct treatment of it is 1 John - the whole letter.
No one can "prove" anything to anyone else because acceptance of proof is a matter of the will.
When one enters into the Kingdom of God in Christ, that person has made a decision that sets the stage for all of the other decisions in their life. At that moment, a transformation begins - although it may not be obvious to anyone around them - and will continue until the Final Day.
Here are only a few relevant passages that speak of the assured transformation of those in Christ:
1 John 2:3-6
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1 John 3:4-10
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And some teaching of Jesus in Matthew 7:15-27
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
The writer of Hebrews explains that God brings discipline into our lives to create holiness and righteousness in Hebrews 12:7-11
It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
God has promised to bring redemption to us - including the redemption of our character (Ephesians 1:13-14):
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
We are created for good works and it is the natural result of having come to trust in Jesus (Ephesians 2:10):
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Paul casually mentions it as something that everyone knew in Philippians 1:6
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Surely that answers the question!
Rom. 6:1-2. 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?'
:applause::applause::applause:winner!
One may certainly live "carnally" as a believer.
That is why throughout Paul's writing in Ephesians, and other letters, he is always about the work of giving instructions, corrections, and establishing what is appropriate living.
However, the problem of "carnality" is not just the putting on of holy "conversation" but the rendering off of the fat of the old man, and spicing the life with that which no person can make a law against.
To all believers that process takes a lifetime.
So, in a very practical way, ALL believers have some "carnality" in which as Paul stated, needs to "die daily."
That is why throughout Paul's writing in Ephesians, and other letters, he is always about the work of giving instructions, corrections, and establishing what is appropriate living.
However, the problem of "carnality" is not just the putting on of holy "conversation" but the rendering off of the fat of the old man, and spicing the life with that which no person can make a law against.
To all believers that process takes a lifetime.
So, in a very practical way, ALL believers have some "carnality" in which as Paul stated, needs to "die daily."