Featured the redemption of Israel

Here is another newsflash: they were not all given at the same time.

You will not find the promise of the New Covenant to Israel in the Pentateuch.

Revelation is progressive. That is a primary point underscoring the Mystery of the Gospel and Eternal Redemption.

No-one in Israel was eternally redeemed. Everyone in the Church is.

In your perception, but he has soundly defeated you in every response. The only way you can not see that is, well...I don't know how you can't see it, lol.

Not even close. lol

An astute observation.

Show one post where Gentile Inclusion is denied under New Covenant standard, by anyone.

False argument, false charge.

And by the way, would you mind showing me where I can find this Covenant of Redemption that shows all of the faithful of all time were eternally saved...before or after the Cross?

He can help you if you would simply address the points made.

Can't blame him if he did. He shows great restraint because on most forums you would no longer be a member. Your disruption, as well as that of your pals violates Christian Doctrine on a number of levels.

You should learn to show a little respect for the staff.


Continued...

 

That is the point I have been making since the other thread.

But you can't stick with that truth, you have to try to justify the error you have been speaking:

No, not "in either case," those who had faith prior to the Revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel had no clue.

They had a foundational faith in God...that was it. That was enough to secure their eternal destiny, but it was not enough for them to be eternally redeemed.

Christ had to die first.

And this is what the writer of Hebrews is speaking about, the difference between the First Principles of the Oracles of God and that which is perfect, or complete:...in regards to the Doctrine of Christ:



Hebrews 5:10-6:1

King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


The writer draws the distinct difference between what is foundational and what is complete, and warns them not to lay again that which is foundational.

Pay careful attention to v.12. You are having difficulty with the First Principles.

And how much do you make for supplying comedy relief?

2 Timothy 1:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Great, now let's read a little further on:



10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:



Again, No-one in Israel was eternally redeemed.

Everyone in the Church is.

That is a clear distinction between Israel and the Church.


Continued...

 

"Looking for" implies it had not happened.

We have the Gospels to underscore that truth.

The "actual accomplishment..."

Very good.

Now, what about Israel?

Will you deny they received atonement for sins through the Law?

Completely irrelevant except to say that this was also a Mystery.

Another clear Doctrine your club can't handle.

Sorry, no, it just isn't that difficult.

I would say that in one Age speaking through Prophets and in this Age speaking to us by His Son...

...qualifies as different.

Especially when you factor in that the Son sent the Spirit, the Comforter, to convey Gospel truth.

That didn't happen in other dispensations either, amigo.

"Fully."

"Finally."

Very good.

Shame you ruin that little bright spot in your posting and go on to say...

No, not even your commentary does that.

Meditate on these words...

"Fully."

"Finally."

You do now.

You can prove to me you're big enough to admit to blatant error.

Grace and knowledge are not exactly the terms that come to mind when your posts are read.

Vitriol and confusion are more apt.

Sorry Scripture and Study bothers you so much.

But how do you ever expect to grow if you only make vague references.

Start actually posting the Scripture. If you had posted 1 Timothy 2 you may have decided not to, because it was contrary to what you are trying to teach.

So show why they don't.

Hebrews 1:1-2 doesn't teach that God is doing something different?

lol

Funny, but I seem to get quite a bit of interaction.

Only the cowards ignore.

Well, perhaps that will lead to an understanding and discussion someone will want to interact with.

Beats having a policy of disrupting every thread, ignoring points and Scripture, and cheerleading for people who say some really stupid stuff. lol

Again, a little advice: you should stop cheering when your quarterback runs the ball into the wrong end-zone.

I interact in several different ways with my antagonists.

If you would like to try another style, you are going to need to work on your own.

The fact of the matter is...it's not evil if it's true.

And if it's not true, then it wouldn't bother us.

Right?


God bless.

 

And the Gospels are where He does that.

Not Genesis-Malachi.

No-one of Israel was eternally redeemed.

Everyone in the Church is.

Christ obtained eternal redemption for all of the Faithful on the Cross.

This is simply basic.


God bless.

 

Abraham we are told had his faith counted to him for righteousness just was we do and every other believer has

 

Relevance to the topic?

Relevance to the topic?

Just illustrates you want to turn the thread to a discussion of the Theology System.

Most of what he has posted is simply basic Bible Truth.

Why should he do that when he is focusing on the topic?

Why don't you start a new thread. Perhaps because no-one is really interested in your threads?

He has done that.

Same household of faith...different economy.

Israel received atonement through animal sacrifice as commanded by the Law.

They still needed to be redeemed.

Nationally...they still do.

But since the OP believes we can just use any old verse that has redeemed in it, consider:


Luke 21:28

King James Version (KJV)

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Now tell me, is Eternal Redemption in view or temporal Redemption?

Does it matter?

You have proven you won't.

You are the reason for the derailment. Yet you charge him with it.

Hilarious.


God bless.

 

Does that mean you weren't going to talk about him behind his back either?

Just curious, seeing you have a habit of doing that with me.

No, actually, you have never seen a Muslim that has more faith than the average Christians.

Muslims do not have the faith of the Christian, and you equating the two displays your ignorance of faith in relation to Redemption.

Have you ever seen a Muslim with more belief than the average Christian?

Oh, break out the Scripture when someone is negative, lol.

So tell me...when did that old serpent get his head crushed, OR.

Right there in the Garden?

"Foreseeing" being a critical word you might want to look into.

Now tell me, when you go out to witness, do you tell them "Christ is going to come, that was promised to Abraham?"

Or do you tell them Christ has come.

We do see aspects of the Gospel in the promises made unto Abraham, but, that does not change the fact that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was not revealed until the Comforter came.

We see aspects of the Gospel in the Gospel of the Kingdom, but, that does not change the fact that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was not revealed until the Comforter came.

So why wasn't the Law for the Gentiles?

Why weren't the Gentiles the People of God?

When did God begin making both Jew and Gentile...one?



Ephesians 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



Please show me that God is not doing something different.

Please show me that Israel, or any Gentile...was eternally redeemed under the Law, or prior to the Law.

But they were not eternally redeemed in the Garden.

They were not even saved in the Garden, but if you read it...

...they were lost in the Garden.

See also Romans Five.

Make sure you include backbiting in that promise.


God bless.

 

No, all did not look for that Seed, many of Israel thought themselves to be the seed, thus believed they were saved by heritage.

And not sure what New Testament you read, but one does have to know particulars.

That is why the Lord sent Peter to Cornelius.

Still curious...were you baptized into Moses?


God bless.

 

He didn't father me, lol. God did.

And he is not my father, God is.

But since we are at it...how about Abel? Did Abel have faith?

Noah?

Job?

I am having a hard time seeing Abraham as the father of all who believe.

I would suggest that in context in view is a contrast between those under Law and those that are not.

Abraham had no more understanding of the Mystery of the Gospel than Peter did.

No, the Father is the Father of all those who trust in Christ for salvation.

Just to remind you:



John 1:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


1 John 3:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Another passage contrasting the Law with the New Covenant.


Galatians 3:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

In Scripture it also speaks of "begetting" someone unto something.



1 Corinthians 4:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Now, what makes more sense to you. That you are a son of God, and God is your Father, or you are a son of Abraham, and Abraham is your father?

Which application makes more sense in light of the New Testament.

And let me ask you this...were men given the power to become the sons of God by receiving Christ in the Old Testament?

Kind of hard to make that argument when we know when Christ came and we see what reception He received from Israel:


John 1:11-12

King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

I would agree, my friend, but, that does not mean that we make this a universal application to believers in New Covenant relationship with God.

Now are we the sons of God.

The power to become the sons of God began when men were able to receive Christ.

Having faith in God and veiled prophecy did not eternally redeem men, for if that were the case, then the sacrifices of the Old Testament Economies would have ceased.

Hey thanks!

God bless.

 

No, you don't like it when your version of the rules don't align with the reality of the thread.

You are encouraging derailing the thread by misidentifying what the topic is.

And here you are complaining when this has already been addressed.

Here is the topic:

I have done everything I can to make this the focus and not one person has addressed my response.

I even took it easy and didn't do a detailed response, but focused on the statement and what it meant.

Then you say...

So where is your support that my statement is unbiblical?

Where is your address of the Scripture presented to help you understand the statement?

It is about the difference between Israel and the Church, just as it was in the other thread.

That difference is that no-one was eternally redeemed through the Law, and Israel was under the Law.

That is what Christ came to do...eternally redeem. Completely forgive.

Show me where you are criticized for not switching words?

You are criticized for making saved and redeemed equal terms and for suggesting that one can use the same word without bearing to context.

This is what you said:

And that will not "make your point," lol.

Show me how...

David is eternally redeemed, and why you cannot see that the adversity is temporal.

And while we are at it...

...I would suggest you throw away the commentaries you have and buy new ones.

I thought maybe it was because it is just too clear that Israel is the created People of God in the Old Testament.

Maybe I am wrong.


God bless.

 

The correlation to Abraham's seed is through Christ.

Okay, all together now...


Matthew 6:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Dinner time?

I think I will stick with being a joint heir with Christ, having the same Father He had.

An illustration used for faith does not negate that fact.


God bless.

 

Read the posts and you will see some of us are actually continuing to maintain the focus.

Thank you.

Really...thank you. Vey glad you started the thread where we can focus on an issue that, while it could have been addressed in the other thread, makes it clear that reviling Dispensationalists is probably not the smartest campaign in the old war manual.




God bless.

 

Hollow, and you know it.

You have not even responded to my response, and since your goal was to try to get others involved in attacking my statement (which you still do not understand), it would appear that I am the only one who is maintaining the OP.

So stop sniveling, lol.

And in your mind you think your OP does that.

It doesn't.

At the very least you can respond to my response to the OP. Have you even read it?

Not sure how transcribing a commentary addresses the issue of whether Israel or anyone prior to Israel was eternally redeemed.

And what you also showed was your proclivity for making false charges...even after you have been corrected on that before:

You are bearing false witness.

And it is because you don't understand and you don't want to.

The distinction is between Israel and the Church. That was the context the statement was given, but just as you show context is irrelevant in your collage of verses, even so the context of your opponents statement is irrelevant.

Shameful.

Every post has been addressed.

You want to show me where either made a relevant statement that shows that anyone in Israel was eternally redeemed?

I'm getting on you now twofold: first misrepresenting my statement and bearing false witness several times (even after corrected), and then trying to redefine the OP to suit your buddies' nonsense.

And this is your problem...you do not understand that the Body is One.

In your mind there are distinct camps.

There is one Body, and one Word of God. That is what you need to learn. If you do, you might dig yourself out of the "camp" you are in now, and be a part of the Body as you are commanded to.

Nice?

How is making someone the focus of an OP nice?

How is bearing false witness nice?

How is presenting sloppy theology nice?

You don't need to get anywhere with me...your problems are internal. You have gotten caught up in a clique that is extremely unhealthy for you. And all because you rejected those who once taught you. What, did somebody there offend you?

Any more?

Hilarious.

This is why I said before trying to talk with you is pointless.

That was you.

Here is the focus:

But the only ones that can be found to actually focus on what you said you wanted to focus on are myself and DHK.

That is fact.

You live in a fantasy realm.


God bless.

 

You're quite welcome.

Now you can respond to my response to the OP.


God bless.

 

No-one is debating that. That too is basic.

In view is the distinction between the Church and Israel, and the fact that eternal redemption was obtained through Christ and specifically through His Work at a specific point in history makes that distinction clear quite well.

Now tell me, was Israel the People of God under Law?

Was the Covenant of Law distinct from the New Covenant?

Were those under Law eternally redeemed while they still offered up sacrifice according to the Law?

These are basic questions posed to the OP and her cohorts, and not one of them will answer.

And in regards to Abraham, God is my Father, not Abraham. My faith is not ascribed to believing what Abraham, nor doing what Abraham did, but is the result of the Ministry of the Comforter enlightening my natural mind to the Gospel.


God bless.

 

And finally caught up.

See you guys in the next round.




God bless.