Would you consider a 7 day Adventist for next President?

[TCassidy]

I thought John Kennedy's presidency put the last nail in the "I won't vote for Smithers because he\she is not Protestant." coffin. What's the diff between an RCC candidate and a SDA one?

The main difference would be that the RCC does not think Christ will kill everyone who worships on Sunday at the 2nd coming.

 

[church mouse guy]

Many people consider SDA a cult, just like they do Mormans.

Comes from following the teachings of a self proclaimed later day "prophets". Joseph Smith for Mormans and Ellen White for SDA.

Yes, I understand that but I am wondering if the opposition expressed as "false Christ" was saying that SDA are all cultic? In the case of Mormons, which you mention, Carpro, they are cultic beyond a shadow of a doubt based upon Mormon doctrine and theology.

In other words, I am not clear about whether the debate is that Dr. Carson is cultic or that Dr. Carson believes differently theologically. I infer that the charge is that Dr. Carson is cultic. For the record, I disagree with SDA but I try not to judge people by what day is sacred to them.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't understand what you mean by their false Christ. Specifically, are you saying that the SDA are not Christian?

A Christ that kills all those who worship on Sunday is not the true Christ. I would have thought that was self evident.

 

[church mouse guy]

A Christ that kills all those who worship on Sunday is not the true Christ. I would have thought that was self evident.

Oh, I am not as intelligent as you so what you call self-evident shows that you are smarter. Specifically, I wanted to make sure that you were saying that Dr. Carson is cultic so that I can disagree that he is not cultic just because he has different doctrine on a peripheral subject. All of the SDA fancy steps merely state that people who observe the Lord's Day (Sunday) go to hell, huh? Of course, I don't believe that.

Romans 14:5 (KJV) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

 

[carpro]

For the record, I disagree with SDA but I try not to judge people by what day is sacred to them.

Nor do I, but SDAs do. It's part of their doctrine.

 

[church mouse guy]

Nor do I, but SDAs do. It's part of their doctrine.

It has been a while since I looked into SDA doctrine. They held a national convention here once and Dr. Corrie Servas lives here so we get some news about them. My thinking is that some are cultic and some are not. On the essentials of doctrine, many are Christians. I do not know Dr. Carson's specific doctrinal beliefs but to say that people who go to church on Sunday go to hell is wrong based upon Romans 14 and so therefore I disagree with that doctrine, which I consider peripheral and not essential. I do not think that people who go to church on Saturday go to hell, for the record.

 

[Deleted member 12390]

I would vote for Anybody as long as they're not a democrat.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

My point is he was elected unlike Al Smith back in the 30s.

I remember when some thought John Kennedy was unelectable because he was a Catholic.

 

[carpro]

I do not know Dr. Carson's specific doctrinal beliefs but to say that people who go to church on Sunday go to hell is wrong based upon Romans 14 and so therefore I disagree with that doctrine, which I consider peripheral and not essential.

SDAs consider it essential.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The RCC over the years has held to some other dangerous doctrines which wars have been fought over.

The main difference would be that the RCC does not think Christ will kill everyone who worships on Sunday at the 2nd coming.

 

[carpro]

My point is he was elected unlike Al Smith back in the 30s.

I understand. I wrote and posted my statement at almost the same time as you did. I didn't see yours first.

 

[church mouse guy]

SDAs consider it essential.

I am not using SDA terminology on what is essential Christianity and what is peripheral. Essential doctrines are the main doctrines that all Christians worldwide subscribe to. Peripheral doctrine deals with issues such as communion, method of baptism, etc. Of course, we all know that the SBC is so smart that they have everything correct....

 

[carpro]

I am not using SDA terminology on what is essential Christianity and what is peripheral. Essential doctrines are the main doctrines that all Christians worldwide subscribe to. Peripheral doctrine deals with issues such as communion, method of baptism, etc. Of course, we all know that the SBC is so smart that they have everything correct....

OK Since SDAs hold as "essential" the doctrine that salvation depends on worshiping on Saturday and other Christians worldwide do not, in your view, what does that mean?

 

[church mouse guy]

OK Since SDAs hold as "essential" the doctrine that salvation depends on worshiping on Saturday and other Christians worldwide do not, in your view, what does that mean?

Okay, good question. I will attempt to list the essential Christian doctrines but please consider this an informal statement and not a formal theological statement, because I am only a layman and never attended seminary. Actually, I believe the Baptist Faith and Message of the SBC without any exception. But for an ancient statement of Christian essential doctrines, let me say:

"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

Now, I don't believe that baptism is a sacrament but an ordinance.

On the subject of this thread, I think that some SDA are Christians and I would vote for them but I think that Dr. Carson is too green politically to cope with the corruption and cynical lying of Hillary in debate.

 

[Salty]

This is a ridiculous discussion! Believing what God MIGHT do in the future, has nothing to do with the FACT that ISIS is currently BEHEADING Christians!

 

[Zaac]

Christianity vs. Morality

Apples vs. Oranges

If that's the lie you want to believe, that's your privilege. But y'all still need to shut up about all moral issues when it comes to the Presidency if it's apples vs oranges.

One can be a non-Christian and still support morality as a social construct.

Pure foolishness and a benefit of the doubt that I'm sure you nor any of your foolish talk speaking friends would give to an atheist or a Muslim.

If it came down to Carsen vs. Clinton, I would wholeheartedly vote for Carsen. Whether he is a Christian or a deceived religious man, he and I hold the same moral beliefs.

But y'all aren't trying to elect a pastor-in-chief. So why does it matter what his moral beliefs are?

Mine come from my Christianity and at the worst case, his come from at least a "good" moral construct based on a what a portion of society believes.

Again pure foolishness based upon a worldly desire to hypocritically hold one party's candidates to a different standard.

Scripture says if it the wisdom didn't come from above, it came from the devil. So again, why are evangelicals for the sake of electing someone ignoring the unequal yoking of Who you say you follow and who a potential Presidential candidate follows?

Some of you continue to be an embarrassment to the cause of Christ when it comes to your politics.

I don't think he will get the nomination, but if he did - he has my vote.

That's generally how folks with situational convictions respond. Guess he can't be any worse than yoking yourselves to the Muslim.

 

[Zaac]

Well, the SDA are nice people and their doctrine is debatable but that the notion that only people who go to church on Saturday will be saved does not disqualify Dr. Carson. What makes him an unlikely nominee would be his possible inability to defeat Hillary in debate and therefore wage a successful campaign against her. You can't expect a political novice to defeat someone whose political experience dates back to Watergate and who is a trained Yale lawyer and who is of the correct physical gender.

Of course, that does not mean that Dr. Carson is not more intelligent than Hillary. Dr. Carson has helped people and is kind and compassionate.

My personal opinion is that the good DR. is kinda loco. He's been saying some crazy stuff. I think Lindsey Graham said it best this past week when he stated:

“On our side, you’ve got the No. 2 guy [who] tried to kill someone at 14, and the No. 1 is high energy and crazy as hell. How am I losing to these people?” he said.

Hillary is so dishonest and so corrupt that it is likely that the FBI themselves will be too corrupt to investigate her without Clinton influence corrupting the FBI.

If y'all aren't electing the pastor in chief, why is her moral dishonesty an issue?

 

[Zaac]

I would vote for him if he were the best choice out of the batch. I refuse to not vote and a vote for a third party in my state is a waste of time so I will go by the guy who has the views closest to what I feel we need in office.

Just something I guess I'm never gonna understand. With the amount of evangelicals in this country, we can't find a candidate who follows Christ and who isn't just bat crazy?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Pure foolishness and a benefit of the doubt that I'm sure you nor any of your foolish talk speaking friends would give to an atheist or a Muslim.

I DO give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to morality to every single Muslim person in my acquaintance. I've taught several Muslim students and had parent-teacher relationships with their families and I have said here and elsewhere that these kids and their families are some of the most moral people I know. They aren't saved. They are all headed for hell and I pray for them as they come to my mind - but they are good people and I loved every one of them. I am burdened for their souls.

But y'all aren't trying to elect a pastor-in-chief. So why does it matter what his moral beliefs are?

Because even if the person I vote for is not a Christian, if he or she is competent and practices moral principles - albeit not garnered from Christ, but man-made traditions - that's why I am voting for him or her.

Morality isn't necessarily based on Christianity. Morality doesn't save you. Morality is a set of constructed rules that govern a society. Christians take our moral cue from God and sometimes even society will agree with those standards even if they don't believe in God. Even atheists and people of false faiths agree that some things are blatantly right and wrong. Our society is trashing a lot of those moral principles - and everyone who holds them dear and is trying to preserve them isn't necessarily a Christian.

And let's just be honest here for a moment. Those Muslim families that I spoke of have more moral fiber in their little fingers than some of the professing Christians I know. And that's another burden to be. I have Christians in my OWN family who have no problems with homosexuality nor abortion.

Here's what Al Mohler said about voting for non-Christians and he is right, “We must be honest and acknowledge that there are non-Christians or non-evangelicals who share far more of our worldview and policy concerns than some others who identify as Christians. The stewardship of our vote demands that we support those candidates who most clearly and consistently share our worldview and combine these commitments with the competence to serve both faithfully and well.”

Scripture says if it the wisdom didn't come from above, it came from the devil. So again, why are evangelicals for the sake of electing someone ignoring the unequal yoking of Who you say you follow and who a potential Presidential candidate follows?

That's generally how folks with situational convictions respond. Guess he can't be any worse than yoking yourselves to the Muslim.

If I vote for a non-believer - and as I said earlier, I don't want to vote for Carsen, but I will if he's the GOP nominee I will - but if I do hypothetically vote for him, how am I yoking God together will idols?

Some of you continue to be an embarrassment to the cause of Christ when it comes to your politics.

Lies. Foolishness. And now I am an embarrassment. I'll cry later.

 

[annsni]

Just something I guess I'm never gonna understand. With the amount of evangelicals in this country, we can't find a candidate who follows Christ and who isn't just bat crazy?

Oh man, do I agree. But then again, the other side doesn't fare any better in the crazy category.