Defining legalism

[evangelist6589]

The best place in the Bible to learn about legalism is Galatians and according to chapters 4-5 there is a legalism that is tied to salvation and a legalism that is tied to sanctification which is explained in chapter 4 especially. People often confuse the two. Last week in SS we are going through a BJU study guide book on Galatians and a question was asked about if personal standards can be legalistic and I said most definitely yes and went on to explain a legalism tied to sanctification using music standards (no drums in church), offering (in the back or standard), alcohol, and tithing. My answer did not impress the pastor but caused some tension, despite just answering what I had written down in the book!

You see the pastor thinks that legalism can only be tied to salvation and a legalism tied to sanctification does not exist, yet the church separates from other bible believing churches in the area that have drums in worship!!!!!!

I think that some Christians have the term legalism confused..

 

[InTheLight]

Narrowly defined legalism is anything we do that we think will bring us salvation. More broadly defined, legalism is anything we do that we think will gain us favor with God.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

[TCassidy]

Legalism. The concept of adding the works of the law (either biblical or man-made rules) to grace either to receive salvation, keep salvation, or to attain spiritual maturity.

Judiastic legalism: The heresy condemned in the book of Galatians which attempts to add the works of the law to the grace of God for salvation. Such legalism is characterized by law keeping in order to receive, or to keep, salvation. Such heresy is common among arminian groups such as 7th Day Adventism, Pentecostalism, etc. This type of legalist is seldom a genuinely saved person, having "gone about to establish his own righteousness and not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God."

Pharisaical legalism: The idea of keeping the law, either biblical or man-made rules, in order to become spiritually mature. This type of legalist is often saved, but fails to understand that holy living is the result of spiritual maturity and not the cause of it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Legalism. The concept of adding the works of the law (either biblical or man-made rules) to grace either to receive salvation, keep salvation, or to attain spiritual maturity.

Judiastic legalism: The heresy condemned in the book of Galatians which attempts to add the works of the law to the grace of God for salvation. Such legalism is characterized by law keeping in order to receive, or to keep, salvation. Such heresy is common among arminian groups such as 7th Day Adventism, Pentecostalism, etc. This type of legalist is seldom a genuinely saved person, having "gone about to establish his own righteousness and not submitted himself unto the righteousness of God."

Pharisaical legalism: The idea of keeping the law, either biblical or man-made rules, in order to become spiritually mature. This type of legalist is often saved, but fails to understand that holy living is the result of spiritual maturity and not the cause of it.

Well written post

 

[agedman]

Well written post

Too bad you don't follow it.

You have consistently made posts and threads in which you puff up your own methods and street preaching even to the point of condemning in one thread any who do not follow your example. That isn't from the Holy Spirit.

Then you have the audacity of being puffed up in some self authority that you would seek to mock the standards of living others, who are possibly more mature in Christ than you, and in some manner belittle that standard.

I don't consume intoxicants. I view that as a Biblical standard. That others don't agree may grieve me, but I am not responsible for their maturity level.

I don't agree with worship services that rely on banging drums and mind numbing repetition to get "in the spirit" for what ever spirit they get into I don't find agreement with the Holy Spirit. That others may not agree with me is not obliging me to be responsible for their maturity level.

I don't put money in an offering plate, not out of conviction, but out of preference.​

Each of those statements are gained from a life of experiential growing in Christ and maturing in the leading of the Holy Spirit. If I were the pastor of a church, then those things would also be reflected in my approach toward not only leadership but the mode and methods used.

Silly man, do you not know that when you "contribute" in the manner in which you have repeatedly posted that you do, you are sowing discord among the brethren?

You are not contending for the faith.

You are not opposing unScriptural doctrine.

You are making those who are perhaps weaker not only uncomfortable, but mocking that which they determine to be unholy. That is wrong, and an affront to the work of the Holy Spirit in the assembly.

You are making those, who are perhaps more spiritually mature than you, uncomfortable by displaying your own lack of spiritual maturity, lack of meekness, and quiet.

You are not bringing edification.

You are not bringing unity over the Scripture truth, or your whole attitude and approach would be non-offensive within the assembly.

Rather, your attitude should and would allow the Holy Spirit to use His Word, and not some view YOU have adopted and claimed is that which is the most right.

 

[evangelist6589]

Too bad you don't follow it.

You have consistently made posts and threads in which you puff up your own methods and street preaching even to the point of condemning in one thread any who do not follow your example. That isn't from the Holy Spirit.

Then you have the audacity of being puffed up in some self authority that you would seek to mock the standards of living others, who are possibly more mature in Christ than you, and in some manner belittle that standard.

I don't consume intoxicants. I view that as a Biblical standard. That others don't agree may grieve me, but I am not responsible for their maturity level.

I don't agree with worship services that rely on banging drums and mind numbing repetition to get "in the spirit" for what ever spirit they get into I don't find agreement with the Holy Spirit. That others may not agree with me is not obliging me to be responsible for their maturity level.

I don't put money in an offering plate, not out of conviction, but out of preference.​

Each of those statements are gained from a life of experiential growing in Christ and maturing in the leading of the Holy Spirit. If I were the pastor of a church, then those things would also be reflected in my approach toward not only leadership but the mode and methods used.

Silly man, do you not know that when you "contribute" in the manner in which you have repeatedly posted that you do, you are sowing discord among the brethren?

You are not contending for the faith.

You are not opposing unScriptural doctrine.

You are making those who are perhaps weaker not only uncomfortable, but mocking that which they determine to be unholy. That is wrong, and an affront to the work of the Holy Spirit in the assembly.

You are making those, who are perhaps more spiritually mature than you, uncomfortable by displaying your own lack of spiritual maturity, lack of meekness, and quiet.

You are not bringing edification.

You are not bringing unity over the Scripture truth, or your whole attitude and approach would be non-offensive within the assembly.

Rather, your attitude should and would allow the Holy Spirit to use His Word, and not some view YOU have adopted and claimed is that which is the most right.

This is a debate board. If you can't handle debates and some posters there is always the door.

 

[blessedwife318]

This is a debate board. If you can't handle debates and some posters there is always the door.

Ironic coming from the poster that gives rabbits and other animals to posters that dare to disagree and debate with you.

 

[agedman]

This is a debate board. If you can't handle debates and some posters there is always the door.

It isn't my ability that is in question.

It is what you have to offer to those who you consider less mature, when they may in fact be more mature.

 

[evangelist6589]

It isn't my ability that is in question.

It is what you have to offer to those who you consider less mature, when they may in fact be more mature.

Man learn to use your ignore feature because you soon will be on mine.

 

[blessedwife318]

Man learn to use your ignore feature because you soon will be on mine.

This is a debate board. If you can't handle debates and some posters there is always the door.

 

[Yeshua1]

Legalism is to state that one impresses God, finds favor with Him by keeping a strict list of do's and don'ts...

 

[evangelist6589]

Legalism is to state that one impresses God, finds favor with Him by keeping a strict list of do's and don'ts...

Exactly. Well defined. Legalism destroys relationships.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I find the explanation about there being two types of legalism helpful. But I have a question: there are indeed things that will separate you from God or hinder your maturity or spiritual walk, without affecting salvation. At what point is this scriptural, and at what point is it legalism? Where's the line between the two?
I would say that the church I grew up in was legalistic, but they don't think so as they think their stances are Biblical.

 

[DHK]

I find the explanation about there being two types of legalism helpful. But I have a question: there are indeed things that will separate you from God or hinder your maturity or spiritual walk, without affecting salvation. At what point is this scriptural, and at what point is it legalism? Where's the line between the two?
I would say that the church I grew up in was legalistic, but they don't think so as they think their stances are Biblical.

There are many churches like that. To them their standards are Biblical, and very well may be. If you believe differently and have different standards then that is the nature of soul liberty. I suggest you find a church that you can agree with rather than staying in a church that you can't agree with. The right to believe the way that we believe is right at the foundation of our society not just our faith.

 

[TCassidy]

Where's the line between the two?

The line between the two is cause and effect.

A legalist believes by being obedient he will get closer to God.

A biblicist believes by getting closer to God he will be more obedient.

 

[Salty]

Lets say that a church has a standard that church members are not to smoke.
Is that a matter of being legalistic or is it a matter of church members choose to
have high standards.

 

[TCassidy]

Lets say that a church has a standard that church members are not to smoke.
Is that a matter of being legalistic or is it a matter of church members choose to
have high standards.

Would a new convert, who is struggling against his nicotine addiction, be denied membership? If so the church is legalistic.

And why is not smoking equated with "high standards?" Where in the bible can we find an admonition against smoking?

In my 40+ years of ministry I have ministered according to the simple rule:

If the bible says don't do it, we don't do it.

If the bible says do it, we do it.

If the bible is silent on the issue so are we.

 

[DHK]

Lets say that a church has a standard that church members are not to smoke.
Is that a matter of being legalistic or is it a matter of church members choose to
have high standards.

Let's look at it another way. Smoking harms the body. It shortens one's lifespan. It not only harms the person it can be shown that it harms others, and to many it is offensive, and therefore wrong.
For example, my wife has asthma. She is so sensitive to cigarette smoke that if I simply drive a smoker home she may have a reaction because of their clothes. If a church does not take a stand against something so blatantly evil and wrong then what is wrong with the church?

 

[TCassidy]

Smoking harms the body. It shortens one's lifespan. It not only harms the person it can be shown that it harms others, and to many it is offensive, and therefore wrong.

Obesity harms the body. It shortens one's lifespan. It not only harms the person, it can be shown that it harms others, and to many it is offensive, and therefore wrong.

How much do you weigh?

 

[TCassidy]

For example, my wife has asthma. She is so sensitive to cigarette smoke that if I simply drive a smoker home she may have a reaction because of their clothes. If a church does not take a stand against something so blatantly evil and wrong then what is wrong with the church?

For example, I have an allergy to most perfumes. I am so sensitive to the smell of perfume that if my wife simply drives a woman wearing perfume home I may have a reaction because of their clothes. If a church does not take a stand against something so blatantly evil and wrong then what is wrong with the church?