Featured Belief, Obedience and Action

Is there any greyness in belief? It is a black and white issue, either you believe or you don't. Obedience on the other hand is a process of discovery, growth and discipline.
I agree that they are linked - but by definition, once a person has believed they are a believer. Some will be more obedient that others. Our obedience in no way justifies us. The work was already performed in Christ; else the question: How much obedience is enough to insure my salvation?

John Calvin writes: "God alone justifies; then we transfer this same function to Christ because he was given to us for righteousness. We compare faith to a kind of vessel; for unless we come empty and with the mouth of our soul open to seek Christ’s grace, we are not capable of receiving Christ. From this it is to be inferred that, in teaching that before his righteousness is received Christ is received in faith, we do not take the power of justifying away from Christ." Institutes, III. xiii. 5.

My righteousness before the Father is in Christ, not in my own works of obedience.

Rob

 

BINGO! Part of the problem is that some attempt to cause 'the children of disobedience' to be converts in their system of belief. Once a person sets this precedence then all other Scriptures have to follow suit. There is no distinction then drawn in Scripture between the converted and unconverted where this is the actual intent of the passages. 1 John as an example and the texts of 1 Cor. 6:9ff and Galatians 5:19ff.

Obedience is evidence of the work of grace and of being brought into the fold, John 10:27. Lack of obedience and following are evidence of one remaining unconverted. Some go as far as saying that in John 8:30 those who 'believed' were converted.

Also Martin Marprelate my apologies for the other thread and continuing to dialog with one concerning repentance. Things got off track as I continued to try to answer questions. Again, I apologize to you here. Thank you.

 

3 For what if some were without faith? shall their want of faith make of none effect the faithfulness of God?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be found true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy words, And mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment. Ro 3

13 if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2

Even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness AFTER being redeemed with a strong hand from the House of Bondage (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom, the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

AND, throughout all their wandering/chastening in the Wilderness He still yet gave them shade by day and light by night, He fed them manna, gave them water, their clothes never wore out, their feet didn't blister, etc., He was with them always even though He granted them no repentance to enter into His Rest. They wandered in the Wilderness for the rest of their lives when they could have spent it in the Land of Milk & Honey had they only believed that it was their's for the taking.

Our God is a faithful God, even when we are not.

 

So what does 'His rest', the 'promised land', the 'land of milk & honey' signify to you in the type?

 

Surely the Promised Land was a type of entering heaven.

Well, at least it is in the futile mind of the perverted works monger

 

I was being facetious and sarcastic.

Canaan typifies the reward of the inheritance for faithful endurance. The faithless generation, even Moses, was not allowed to enter.

Do you believe Moses is in hell?

 

Zactly, thank you. Even Moses and Aaron entered not in because of unbelief.

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

 

Moses and Aaron were no different than the others.

19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3

And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12

 

I followed what he was doing, you've done it, we all do it, use sarcasm and facetiousness to make a point. After the way you behaved on Jon's thread on the atonement you've absolutely no higher ground to be chiding ANYONE over anything.

 

You say Canaan typifies heaven, Moses and Aaron were denied entrance into Canaan because of unbelief just as all the others.

So you're saying that of an estimated 2 1/2 million souls that were redeemed from the House of Bondage, only three made into heaven? Joshua, Caleb, and Moses? All the rest went to hell?

 

Yes, the burden is on Martin to demonstrate exactly how Moses fell short of heaven, yet didn't fall short of heaven.

 

Which is no answer. It's a contradiction just as James has pointed out.

 

I've said numerous times that Calvinists are nothing but Arminians in disguise. Seeing the same types, seeing the warnings the same, condemning the same people.

It's ok, Martin. Let your Arminianism shine forth like a blazing sun.