The nature of God's Kingdom

[Iconoclast]

What about the Kingdom of God?
Does it have any jurisdiction or manifestation on earth?
Or is it strictly heavenly and limited to the human heart?

 

[Zaac]

What about the Kingdom of God?
Does it have any jurisdiction or manifestation on earth?
Or is it strictly heavenly and limited to the human heart?

Iconoclast, will you clarify what you're referring to as the Kingdom of God?

Thanks.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast, will you clarify what you're referring to as the Kingdom of God?

Thanks.

Hello Zaac,
Yes certainly I will and this is exactly the right question to ask.
I am looking over a paperback dealing with the unpopular topic of Christian Reconstruction.
The definition used on page 30 is as follows;
The civilization of God.
It is creation-the entire area under the King of Heaven's lawful dominion.

 

[Zaac]

Hello Zaac,
Yes certainly I will and this is exactly the right question to ask.
I am looking over a paperback dealing with the unpopular topic of Christian Reconstruction.
The definition used on page 30 is as follows;
The civilization of God.
It is creation-the entire area under the King of Heaven's lawful dominion.

Do you agree with this as in agreement with what Scripture seems to point to as the Kingdom of God in,say, Luke 13, or 1 Cor. 6, or Acts 28?

I think that to establish it's scope and where it has jurisdiction, we have to establish whether or not the definition of the book you mentioned is aligned with the definition Scripture seems to present.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hello Zaac,
Yes certainly I will and this is exactly the right question to ask.
I am looking over a paperback dealing with the unpopular topic of Christian Reconstruction.
The definition used on page 30 is as follows;
The civilization of God.
It is creation-the entire area under the King of Heaven's lawful dominion.

He continues...
It is the area that fell under Satan's reign in history as a result of Adams rebellion .
When man fell,he brought the whole world under God's curse gen3:17-19.
The curse extended as far as the reign of sin did.
That meant everything under man's dominion.
This is still what it means.
The laws of the Kingdom of God extend just as far as sin does.
This means every area of life.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you agree with this as in agreement with what Scripture seems to point to as the Kingdom of God in,say, Luke 13, or 1 Cor. 6, or Acts 28?

I think that to establish it's scope and where it has jurisdiction, we have to establish whether or not the definition of the book you mentioned is aligned with the definition Scripture seems to present.

Yes....see post 4.....from the book..help me think this out!

I will post a bit more

 

[Zaac]

He continues...
It is the area that fell under Satan's reign in history as a result of Adams rebellion .
When man fell,he brought the whole world under God's curse gen3:17-19.
The curse extended as far as the reign of sin did.
That meant everything under man's dominion.
This is still what it means.
The laws of the Kingdom of God extend just as far as sin does.
This means every area of life.

Iconoclast, I think the initial definition is off, and that the expounded definition in Post 4 seems more to just speak to God's creation as far as humanity goes, and not the Kingdom of God as Scripture seems to express.

The latter part of Post 4 seems to be headed in the right direction in that it encapsulates the Kingdom of God and its reach in the correct terms.

 

[Iconoclast]

God owns the whole world.
Psalm 24:1 The earth is the Lords, and the fullness thereof;the world, and they that dwell therein

Jesus Christ as God's legal heir,owns the whole earth.
He leased it out to His people to develop progressively over time,just as Adam was supposed to have served as a faithful leaseholder before the fall,bringing the world under dominion. (Gen1:26-28).
Because of Jesus triumph over Satan at Calvary, God is now bringing under judgment every area of life. How?
Through the preaching of the gospel,His two-edged sword of judgement Rev.19:15.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast, I think the initial definition is off, and that the expounded definition in Post 4 seems more to just speak to God's creation as far as humanity goes, and not the Kingdom of God as Scripture seems to express.

The latter part of Post 4 seems to be headed in the right direction in that it encapsulates the Kingdom of God and its reach in the correct terms.

Okay...In post 8 I show how they are approaching it....man that is redeemed man as restored image bearer is to do what Adam failed to do as Jesus demonstrated....but now Christian s are to do Hebrews 2

 

[Zaac]

So are we talking about God's Creation as the equivalent of the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of God's rule over the entirety of that creation?

 

[Iconoclast]

So are we talking about God's Creation as the equivalent of the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of God's rule over the entirety of that creation?

God's creation....post fall.
What is redeemed man's role here and now as we occupy until He comes.
Which if any of God's laws apply to the unsaved on the planet?

 

[Zaac]

I believe redeemed man's role is to push others toward redemption ( the making of disciples). All of the law applies in that the whole of the law is used to point them to Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe redeemed man's role is to push others toward redemption ( the making of disciples). All of the law applies in that the whole of the law is used to point them to Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

Agreed. ....that is initial and primary.
What I find to be a bit dicey is in recently reading some portions of Acts.....it was not only individual Salvation we were called to.....but Kingdom living now once saved.
The gospel and the ordained good works extend to everyone around us.....as per Mt.25.....and even Mt 5-7.
At this point while I am leery of some of the reconstruction guys,as did their cousins,the theonomists...
I find some of the questions they raise thought provoking and somewhat disturbing at the same time.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe redeemed man's role is to push others toward redemption ( the making of disciples). All of the law applies in that the whole of the law is used to point them to Jesus Christ and His Kingdom.

Agreed. ....that is initial and primary.
What I find to be a bit dicey is in recently reading some portions of Acts.....it was not only individual Salvation we were called to.....but Kingdom living now once saved.
The gospel and the ordained good works extend to everyone around us.....as per Mt.25.....and even Mt 5-7.
At this point while I am leery of some of the reconstruction guys,as did their cousins,the theonomists...
I find some of the questions they raise thought provoking and somewhat disturbing at the same time.
I will raise some of the issues by posting some of the questions in the next post.

 

[Zaac]

Agreed. ....that is initial and primary.
What I find to be a bit dicey is in recently reading some portions of Acts.....it was not only individual Salvation we were called to.....but Kingdom living now once saved.
The gospel and the ordained good works extend to everyone around us.....as per Mt.25.....and even Mt 5-7.
At this point while I am leery of some of the reconstruction guys,as did their cousins,the theonomists...
I find some of the questions they raise thought provoking and somewhat disturbing at the same time.
I will raise some of the issues by posting some of the questions in the next post.

You've piqued my interest. Will check back later. I've got to get these Christmas lights down.Biggrin

 

[Iconoclast]

Three questions are asked.

1) What area of life today is not under the effects of sin?

2) what area of sin -filled life will be outside of the comprehensive judgement of God at the final judgement?

3) what area of life today is outside of the legitimate effects of the gospel in transforming evil into good, or Spiritual death into life?

These questions are set in opposition to pietism...here on page 32.
They continue;
What is pietism?
Pietism preaches a limited salvation;
Individual soul-only, family only,church only.

It rejects the very idea of the gospel, the transforming power, the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, and the comprehensive responsibility of Christians in history.

 

[DHK]

There was a kingdom that was offered to the Jews in the time of Christ, and they rejected it:
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

There is a spiritual kingdom which every believer becomes a part of when he is born again.
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

There is a coming kingdom, a millennial kingdom, a kingdom on this earth, a kingdom which the disciples of Jesus knew about and Jesus taught them about it:
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Christ taught the coming of an earthly, literal kingdom (cf. Mat_19:28; Luk_19:11-27; Luk_22:28-30).

What Kingdom are you speaking about?

 

[Iconoclast]

Rahab the harlot recognized the true nature of God's Kingdom. In Joshua 2:11.....
She confessed to the Hebrew spies,
The Lord your God,He is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath.
She understood that God’s Kingdom does have earthly manifestations politically.
There are millions of Christians today who have yet to come to grips with Rahabs confession of faith..pg33

Consider Deuteronomy 4:5-8 the nations were to take notice.

 

[DHK]

Rahab the harlot recognized the true nature of God's Kingdom. In Joshua 2:11.....
She confessed to the Hebrew spies,
The Lord your God,He is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath.
She understood that God’s Kingdom does have earthly manifestations politically.
There are millions of Christians today who have yet to come to grips with Rahabs confession of faith..pg33

Your spiritualization of scripture knows no bounds. Rahab simply acknowledged the omnipotent power of God and that is all:

Jos 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

There is no mention of any kingdom in her words. Besides, she was a Gentile prostitute, a convert to the Israelite religion, and now you are making her one of Israel's prophets and scholars, an authority (like Nicodemus or Saul), on the Law?? Ludicrous.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your spiritualization of scripture knows no bounds. Rahab simply acknowledged the omnipotent power of God and that is all:

Jos 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

There is no mention of any kingdom in her words. Besides, she was a Gentile prostitute, a convert to the Israelite religion, and now you are making her one of Israel's prophets and scholars, an authority (like Nicodemus or Saul), on the Law?? Ludicrous.

That heathen prostitute understands more theology than you do at this point. She confessed the truth of the kingdom rule of God.
Once again just like you deny the Spiritual work of the new birth, calling it magic fairy dust from tinkerbell, you will not be able to perceive what we are discussing as it is spiritually discerned.
You are looking for the literal and carnal. Have fun looking for the red heifer.