Featured What did Jesus do? A Biblical case for using the Law in evangelism

Do you understand the content of the sermon?
What was the promise spoken of?
Those who welcome the promise...what is in the heart and MIND?
In vs 39-41....what is he speaking of about being Justified?
Justified sounds like..... a legal term.. legal terms have something to do with....you guessed it...LAW.

What Law? He mentioned it in Context of...the law of Moses....
The gentiles wanted to hear "these same things"...opps...dispensational lines are coming down...

ITL...this passage does not speak of ; being born from above by direct wording, marraige, pastors, deacons,psalm 1,
Does every passage have to say everything 24/7...

If you want to keep your eyes closed you will never see anything....
let me put it another way;

explain in your own words vs 39-42

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things,
What are the all things?


from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
what does it mean to be justified by the law of Moses? which laws?
40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Do you know what this speaks of?
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

What does it mean that the gentiles wanted these words to be spoken unto them?

 

AGEDMAN
I started a new thread on this discussion portion, I do not think you can sustain your position upon examination, but we will see. As time permits, i will answer this there.

 

Hmmm....

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.


Galatians 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

Game.
Set.
Match.

 

Did I miss that thread?

Title?

 

In the light of evangelism (which this thread is all about), yes it is. God loves them. And you are not God to say that He doesn't love them.

 

I find it strange that every reference you quoted is either from the gospels (pre-cross), or from the Book of Acts (a church in transition). Not one of the scriptures you quoted were from the epistles (books of doctrine and not of history). I am not suggesting that one cannot obtain doctrine from the other books of the Bible, but when the doctrine of the first five books of the Bible does not correlate with the doctrine taught in the rest of the NT, that is the epistles then something is wrong. Show me "the gospel of repentance" in the epistles of Paul. Paul always emphasized salvation by faith, and not by repentance.
Why was that?

 

No doubt he does, but let me give you a more detailed answer as it appears to me that you don't seem to understand it. Besides, I like exposition.

No, No, Icon. You need to go farther back than that. You need CONTEXT. Let's go back right to the beginning and see what he was speaking about in the first place.

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
--Upon entering the synagogue the law and the prophets were read, as was their custom. The law simply refers to the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Bible, and the Prophets refers to the rest of the OT. Thus they could have read about the marriage of Jacob to Leah and Rachel, and then something like Hezekiah's sickness and consequent healing through Isaiah using figs. It doesn't mean the actual "Law" was involved.

Act 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
Act 13:17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.
--From here Paul begins to give a detailed history of Israel right from the time they dwelt in Egypt onward.

Coming down to verse 22 he introduces the lineage of David and then Christ.
22 ...I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
--Christ is introduced but then Paul goes back and introduces John. He speaks of John's baptism of repentance.

By introducing John, he continues the history, for it was John that introduced Christ:
Act 13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
--It is Christ, and through Christ that this salvation is sent. John said "of his feet I am not worthy to loose."

Look carefully. In the next four verses is the gospel: the death, burial and resurrection of Christ:
Act 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Act 13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
Act 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Verses 31-38 speak of the resurrection and how he was seen of many before he ascended.
Then:
Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
--The application: It is this one who has risen from the dead that Paul is preaching to them that can forgive their sins.

What was spoken of, you ask? You answer:

Not at all!
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Act 13:40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
Act 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
--What was in their minds?
Paul had just spent quite a bit of time rehearsing to these Jews (in the synagogue) their entire history. Then he showed how Christ was their Messiah; how he descended from David and died for them. He made no reference to the Law. What was in their minds? Everything that Paul just explained to them. Not the law at all.
Where does justification come from?
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

He started with Egypt, not Sinai. He made no mention of the Law of Moses.

It speaks of salvation by faith, and he does quote Psalm 2 in verse 35.

Whose eyes are closed?

Okay.

All things refers to every charge of guilt that may be brought against a person.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus." Christ paid the penalty that we could never pay.

He was speaking to Jews. He had just given to these Jews their history. Many Jews thought that they could be justified by the law. Paul fought against this heresy throughout most of his ministry. We see it brought to the front in Acts 15. To these Jews he makes it clear that it is not the law that justifies. In our day we also make a similar thought very clear: "it is not your good works, your religion that saves you."

Do you?

Habakkuk 1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
--This is the verse that Paul quotes here. It is a warning against impending judgment. If they don't trust Christ by faith, judgment will come upon them. One is justified by faith and not by the works of the law.

They also wanted to hear about the gospel, the saving grace of the Lord, how to be saved, how to have forgiveness of sins.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

 

All very good, but I'm not sure what the relevance is to the OP.

Again, I don't see any relevance to the OP.

Okey dokey.

If you think I've been advocating a pragmatic model, you have missed everything I wrote about the Holy Spirit and His power.

Again, I'll avoid straying from the OP and simply let you have the last word on this. I believe I made my point clearly.

Are you actually evangelizing me here??

All righty. I may or may not join you there when I see it, depending on my capricious disposition.

My intention was not to pick on you. It was based on the history of that particular controversy here on the BB. First they had a Cal/Arm forum. Then they deleted that and folks had it out in the Baptist debate forums. Then that got very contentious, and began to crowd out all other discussions, so that they outlawed such discussions. Then people lobbied for a new Cal/Arm forum, and that is what we have now.

So it is my custom to simply tell would-be Cal/Arm discussers to take it there. That's all I meant. Frown

I have profited from Berkhof, chiefly as the best rep of covenant theology.

 

Well said.

I don't see that Jesus distinguished between the elect and non-elect when He wept over Jerusalem.

Again, well said. It seems to me that since God is love, and we are to be like Jesus, then we should show love in our lives to others. But since we cannot distinguish between the elect and non-elect, we must love all--surely Jay Adams would not tell us to hate our enemy! And if we must love all--then wait, maybe God loves all too!

 

The Word of God despises your opinion --which is steeped in your tradition.
Ps. 3:5,6 : The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong;you destroy those who tell lies. The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, Lord, detest.
Ps. 11:5 : The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.
Ps. 53:5 : But there they are, overwhelmed with dread, where there was nothing to dread. God scattered the bones of those who attacked you; you put them to shame, for God despised them.
Ps. 106:40 : Therefore the Lord was angry with his people and abhorred his inheritance.
Proverbs 3:32 : For the Lord detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.
Proverbs 11:20 : The Lord detests those whose hearts are perverse, but he delights in those whose ways are blameless.
Proverbs 16:5 : The Lord detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: they will not go unpunished.
Malachi 1:2d-3a : Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated
Romans 9:12 : Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'


(All Scripture quoted is from the NIV)

 

Thanks, DHK. Yes, I understand the sermon. I didn't want to expound on it because it's typical of Iconoclast to go veering off down side streets of discussion and get lost in off-topic stuff.

The subject matter was:

Does the Apostle Paul use the imminent return of Christ as a reason for Gentiles to repent in his sermons, as recorded in the Bible? Answer: no.

Does the Apostle Paul use the 10 commandments in his sermons as recorded in the Bible? Answer: no.

Should this method of evangelism be the preferred method of presenting the Gospel? Answer: no.

 

Well ITl this is a good start...you offer two good verses that are indeed on topic!

Now I would like you to look at the sermon I offered from acts 13 and explain those 4 verses to me...DHK has began an answer [some of which is correct, but I think he skirts the issue[
and discussion that I will get to, but I need to respond to Agedman for now....

Now i just saw this ,you said;

What you call veering off.......I call sticking to the topic and you have not answered it as of yet.
It does deal with the law .

 

The reason is very simple. In his letters, Paul is writing to saved people (eg. 1 Cor. 1:2; Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1 etc.). Why would he be telling them to repent and believe if they have already done so? However, he warns both the Corinthians (1 Cor. 6:9) and the Galatians (Gal. 5:21) that people who live unrighteous lives (ie. the unrepentant) will 'not inherit the kingdom of God.'

 

Do you mean Gen.--Deut? Or do you mean Matt.--Acts?

If you mean Matt.--Acts, yes, of course they correlate with the Epistles.

 

Let's look at the OP: Partially stated it says:

The Title of the thread is:
What did Jesus do? A Biblical case for using the Law in evangelism.

Going from there, lets' ask the question, "What would Paul do"? (in evangelism)

When the Philippian jailer came to him trembling and asked "What must I do to be saved,"
What did Paul answer? Did he answer as you just did??

I don't find that approach in the Bible. Rather I find a God of love reaching down to sinners in need of a Savior. I feel sorry for you in your anger.

Paul answered:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

 

May I remind you of the subject of this thread. 'WHAT DID JESUS DO?' You should direct your attention to that. I believe that Evangelist's mentor on evangelism is WOTM, which stands for 'Way of the Master,' the Master being the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

You've been shown the reason multiple times. Your argument is spurious, and rejects the sound handling of the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15), and in this case it is by ignoring the intent and audience of the epistles. This should all be 'theology 101' but you're missing it completely. You're once again arguing against the necessity of repentance in salvation via your fallacious teaching.

No doctrine changed between the Gospels and Acts to the writings contained in the epistles which is 'the faith once delivered to the saints'. This argument that it is not there is a johnny come lately doctrine which you picked up on and have taken on as your own. Whomever developed it has failed 2 Timothy 2:15. You're following suit.

 

I have heard that answer before. It doesn't make any sense.
Paul explains the gospel very carefully to the Corinthians in 1Cor.15:1-4.
Then he explains to them the resurrection in detail. The chapter is known as the Great Resurrection chapter.
The entire book of Romans is a great treatise on soteriology or Salvation.
Why?
Because Christians need to know more about their own salvation.

We talk of our salvation, sing of our salvation, speak of our salvation not only to the unsaved but to one another.
The hymn writer put it this way:

Tell me the old, old story of unseen things above,
Of Jesus and His glory, of Jesus and His love.
Tell me the story simply, as to a little child,
For I am weak and weary, and helpless and defiled.

Refrain

Tell me the old, old story, tell me the old, old story,
Tell me the old, old story, of Jesus and His love.

Tell me the story slowly, that I may take it in,
That wonderful redemption, God’s remedy for sin.
Tell me the story often, for I forget so soon;
The early dew of morning has passed away at noon.

This old hymn of the faith was written by Katherine Hankey in 1866. Christians, true Bible-believers, love to hear that story and never get tired of it. Do you?

It is just an excuse you give that the epistles should not be talking about salvation. That is nonsense.