Do we have any kjvo, 2nd attempt

1611, 1769, or 1873? Which is the KJVO's bible of choice? Plus with three different KJB's in circulation, how can one be KJVO with three different KJB's available?

 

Actually there are more than three varying editions of the KJV in print today. There may be as many as thirty varying editions of the KJV in print today. Cambridge University Press printed six varying editions of the KJV in 2011 [Concord edition, Clarion edition, Transetto Text edition, Standard Text Edition or Emerald edition, Pitt Minion edition, 2011 New Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by David Norton].

I know of no KJV edition in print today that is identical to the 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV. I have found as many as 400 differences between the 1769 Oxford KJV and most present typical KJV editions.

 

KJVO, 2nd attempt?

Is that the 1769 edition?

 

I have some KJB's that have Timothy and some that say Timotheus. Cautious

 

Why do you believe that the1873 Scrivener Cambridge edition is more accurate than the 1769 Oxford edition? Do you believe that the the 1873 Scrivener Cambridge edition is more accurate than the current Cambridge editions? When you say “more accurate,’ do you mean ‘closer to the most likely original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts,’ or ‘closer to one of the two 1611 editions of the KJV?’, or something else?

 

Thank you!

 

I have many copies of the KJV published by a number of publishers, and the text varies from publisher to publisher. The text found KJV Bibles published by the American Bible Society is quite different from the texts published by Cambridge or Oxford.

 

There were 6,565 marginal notes in the Old Testament and 777 in the New (not including the Apochrypha). Could a variation of the KJV use a large number of the marginal alternatives from the 1611 in the actual text instead?

The following marginal alternatives (Or:"...) from Romans alone are found in the NIV.

1:9 : in my spirit
3:9 : charged
7:5 : passions
8:11 : because of his spirit
11:7 : hardened
11:12 : loss
11:36 : him
13 : decently

 

This 1873 and present KJV edition has "strain out" at Matthew 23:24 instead of "strain at." It has "profession of our hope" at Hebrews 10:23 instead of "profession of our faith." At John 10:25, this 1873 edition has "ye believe not" in agreement with several of the earlier English Bibles while most present KJV's have "ye believed not." At Acts 25:23, it has "were entered" in agreement with several earlier English Bibles while most KJV's have "was entered" following the Bishops' Bible. This 1873 edition has "thy mercy's sake" (Psalm 6:4, 31:16, 44:26) for the Oxford edition's "thy mercies' sake," “fathers‘ house“ for “father‘s house“ (1 Chron. 7:2, Ezra 2:59, Neh. 7:61), “heart’s lust” for “hearts’ lust” (Ps. 81:12), “Adder‘s poison“ for “adders‘ poison“ (Ps. 140:3), “fools‘ back” for “fool‘s back“ (Prov. 26:3), “merchant’s ships” for “merchants’ ships” (Prov. 31:14), “priests‘” for “priest’s” (Ezek. 44:30), “potter’s clay” for “potters’ clay” (Dan. 2:41), and “oaths’ sake” for “oath’s sake” (Matt. 14:9, Mark 6:26).

From the second 1611 “She” edition, the 1873 Cambridge has “possession“ for “possessions“ (Gen. 47:27), “ye shall“ for “shall ye“ (Lev. 18:30), “thou shalt“ for “shalt thou“ (Num. 10:2), “the valleys“ for “valleys“ (Deut. 8:7), “it is true“ for “it be true“ (Deut. 17:4), “she rose“ for “she arose“ (1 Kings 3:20), “bondman“ for “bondmen“ (1 Kings 9:22), “maidens“ for “maids“ (Job 19:15), “thine hand“ for “thy hand“ (Isa. 64:8), “mine hands” for “my hands” (Isa. 65:2), “mine hand” for “my hand” (Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 6:14), “with the sword“ for “by the sword“ (Ezek. 31:18), “in pieces“ for “to pieces“ (Dan. 2:34), and “they be drunken“ for “they are drunken“ (Nahum 1:10)..

The text of this KJV edition is more in agreement with the 1611 “he” edition than are most other present KJV editions. Scrivener presented a list of the places in his 1873 edition that he restored 1611 readings (Authorized Edition, pp. 215-237). Compared to the Oxford KJV text in the Scofield Reference Bible, the Old Testament of this edition has “you“ for “ye“ (Gen. 9:4), “Girgashite“ for “Girgasite“ (Gen. 10:16), “towards“ for “toward“ (Gen. 15:5), “this thing“ for “this thing also“ (Gen. 19:21), “lift“ for “lifted“ (Gen. 22:4), “amongst“ for “among“ (Gen. 23:10), “to him“ for “unto him“ (Gen. 25:33), “Philistims“ for “Philistines“ (Gen. 26:1), "hand” for “hands” (Gen. 39:1), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Gen. 41:38), “drunk“ for “drank“ (Gen. 43:34), “Haste you“ for “Haste ye“ (Gen. 45:9), “And you“ for “And ye“ (Gen. 45:13), “any man” for “any men” (Gen. 47:6), “you did“ for “ye did“ (Exod. 10:11), “consecrations“ for “consecration“ (Exod. 29:26), “clothes“ for “cloths“ (Exod. 31:10), “stript“ for “stripped“ (Exod. 33:6), “manner fat“ for “manner of fat“ (Lev. 7:23), “nor scales“ for “and scales“ (Lev. 11:10), “were“ for “are“ (Lev. 25:23), “river side“ for “river‘s side“ (Num. 24:6), “begun“ for “began“ (Num. 25:1), “thy hand“ for “thine hand“ (Deut. 2:24), “thy heart“ for “thine heart“ (Deut. 15:7), “thy oil“ for “thine oil“ (Deut. 18:4), “all lost thing“ for “all lost things“ (Deut. 22:3), “noondays“ for “noonday“ (Deut. 28:29), “even the Lord” for “of the Lord” (Josh. 3:11), “or Sheba“ for “and Sheba“ (Josh. 19:2), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Jud. 3:10), “a hammer“ for “an hammer“ (Jud. 4:21), “he went” for “she went” (Ruth 3:15), “girt“ for “girded“ (1 Sam. 2:4), “my heart“ for “mine heart“ (1 Sam. 2:35), “in the fields” for “in the field” (1 Sam. 20:5), “wrapt“ for “wrapped“ (1 Sam. 21:9), “rose“ for “arose“ (1 Sam. 24:8), “a hill“ for “an hill“ (1 Sam. 26:13), “thy word“ for “thy words“ (1 Kings 3:12), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (1 Kings 8:56), “flotes“ for “floats“ (1 Kings 5:9), “son” for “sons” (1 Kings 13:11), “leese“ for “lose“ (1 Kings 18:5), “a horse “ for “an horse“ (1 Kings 20:20), “neesed“ for “sneezed“ (2 Kings 4:35), “kab“ for “cab“ (2 Kings 6:25), “to give to him“ for “to give him“ (2 Kings 8:19), “Geshan“ for “Gesham“ (1 Chron. 2:47), “Shimron“ for “Shimrom“ (1 Chron. 7:2), “men of might” for “valiant men of might” (1 Chron. 7:5), “son“ for “sons“ (1 Chron. 7:35), “Michah“ for “Micah“ (1 Chron. 23:20), “and laid” for “and they laid” (2 Chron. 29:23), “sin“ for “sins“ (2 Chron. 33:19), “and gold” for “and the gold” (Ezra 7:18), “built“ for “builded“ (Neh. 3:1), “cruddled“ for “curdled“ (Job 10:10), “sent“ for “scent“ (Job 14:9), “flying” for “fleeing” (Job 30:3), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (Ps. 2:4), “whiles” for “while” (Ps. 49:18), “holy Spirit“ for “holy spirit“ (Ps. 51:11), “Zion“ for “Sion“ (Ps. 65:1), “stablish“ for “establish“ (Ps. 89:4), “snare” for “snares” (Ps. 141:9), “vapour” for “vapors” (Ps. 148:8), “beareth“ for “bear“ (Song of Solomon 4:2), “mixt“ for “mixed“ (Isa. 1:22), “Get you” for “Get you” (Isa. 30:11), “burnt“ for “burned“ (Jer. 1:16), “nor daughters” for “or daughters” (Jer. 16:2), “sith“ for “since“ (Jer. 23:38), “afterwards” for “afterward” (Jer. 34:11), “word which“ for “word that“ (Jer. 40:1), “utter court” for “outer court” (Ezek. 10:5), “cropt“ for “cropped“ (Ezek. 17:4), “And the word” for “The word” (Ezek. 18:1), “ebeny“ for “ebony“ (Ezek. 27:15), “astrologians“ for “astrologers“ (Dan. 2:27), “a whirlwind” for “the whirlwind” (Hos. 13:3), “ript“ for “ripped“ (Hos. 13:16), “Kerioth“ for “Kirioth“ (Amos 2:2), “flieth” for “fleeth” (Nah. 3:16), and “Lord GOD“ for “LORD God“ (Hab. 3:19).

In the New Testament, this 1873 and present KJV edition has “but will” for “but he will” (Matt. 3:12), “Spirit“ for “spirit“ (Matt. 4:1), “a hungred“ for “an hungred“ (Matt. 4:2), “out the devils“ for “out devils“ (Matt. 9:34), “Is this“ for “Is not this“ (Matt. 12:23), “had not root” for “had no root” (Matt. 13:6), “a hymn“ for “an hymn“ (Matt. 26:30), “ought“ for “owed“ (Luke 7:41), “he said“ for “he had said“ (Luke 8:8), “to my Lord“ for “unto my Lord“ (Luke 20:42), “They say” for “They said” (John 11:34), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11, 13:19), “house“ for “housetop“ (Acts 10:9), “law of the husband“ for “law of her husband“ (Rom. 7:2), “approved to death” for “appointed to death” (1 Cor. 4:9), “hand“ for “hands“ (2 Cor. 5:1), “think you“ for “think ye“ (2 Cor. 12:19), “passed“ for “past“ (Eph. 2:11), “shamefastness” for “shamefacedness” (1 Tim. 2:9), “or by our epistle“ for “or our epistle“ (1 Thess. 2:15), “which doeth“ for “that doeth“ (1 John 2:29), “precious stone” for “precious stones” (Rev. 17:4), “sailers“ for “sailors“ (Rev. 18:17), “dipt” for “dipped” (Rev. 19:13), and several others.

 

Would a variation of the KJV --switching most of the the marginals to the main text still be considered a KJV? My question is mainly aimed at KJVOs. I rather doubt they would accept that kind of inversion because they believe that exact phraseology is necessary to retain its perfection. Synonyms alone are anathema to them. However, as has been noted, editions of the KJV since 1611 have indeed put a number of marginals into the text and readers of the KJV either did not notice or didn't think it was a big deal.

But if the NIV followed the same principle it would still be an NIV edition. The same applies to many other translations.

 

The 2005 New Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by David Norton is another present KJV edition. Like Scrivener’s 1873 edition, this 2005 edition restores many renderings found in the 1611 edition. It likely goes back to more 1611 renderings than Scrivener’s 1873. This 2005 Cambridge edition is not every word the same as the 1873 Cambridge edition in text. In his “Editor’s Introduction,” David Norton wrote: “Except where there are good reasons to think that the first edition does not represent the readings the translators decided on, first edition readings are restored. Consequently, The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible gives the reader as closely as possible the exact text that the King James translators themselves decided on -- but which was far from perfectly realised in the first edition. The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible is the translators’ Bible” (p. ix). Norton added: “In short, what The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible does is to modernise the spelling of the Bible without sinning against the language of the translators” (p. x). This standard Cambridge edition does not put words in italics. The text of this edition is also found in the 2006 Penguin Classics Bible.

There would be around 4000 differences in text that affect the sound in this 2005 Cambridge edition when compared to the Oxford edition in the Scofield Reference Bible. Hundreds [perhaps a thousand] of these differences would be where it goes back to 1611 renderings. The updating of the spelling of many words also affected the sound over 1,700 times [examples include “baked“ for “baken,” “bore” for “bare” used as a past tense verb, “begot” for “begat,” “broke” for “brake,” “built” for “builded,” “”dug” for “digged,“ drove” for “drave,” “dwelt“ for “dwelled,” “got“ for “gat,” “show” for “shew,” “showed” or “shown” for “shewed,” “shone“ for “shined,” “strewed“ for “strawed,” “swore” for “sware,” “tore“ for “tare,” “waxed“ for “waxen“]. In addition, the 2005 Cambridge used “a” instead of “an” before several words starting with h (over 300 differences). The 2005 Cambridge also used “thy” or “my” when used as adjectives instead of “thine” and “mine” in many cases (over 1100 differences).

Some other example changes include the following: “And Abram” for “But Abram” (Gen. 16:6), “innocence” for “innocency” (Gen. 20:5), “seethed” for “sod” (Gen. 25:29), “endowed” for “endued” (Gen. 30:20), “chided” for “chode” (Gen. 31:36), “hindmost” for “hindermost” (Gen. 33:2), “aught” for “ought” (Gen. 47:18), “excellence” for “excellency” (Exod. 15:7), “showbread“ for “shewbread“ (Exod. 25:30), “always“ for “alway“ (Exod. 25:30), “rearward” for “rereward” (Num. 10:25), “ribbon” for “ribband” (Num. 15:38), “diverse“ for “divers“ (Deut. 22:11), “avowed“ for “avouched“ (Deut. 26:17), “haemorrhoids” for “emerods” (Deut. 28:27), “hocked” for “houghed” (Josh. 11:9), “wrung“ for “wringed“ (Jud. 6:38), “arrogance” for “arrogancy” (1 Sam. 2:3), “situated” for “situate” (1 Sam. 14:5), “sawn“ for “sawed“ (1 Kings 7:9), “cleaved” for “clave” (1 Kings 11:2), shreded“ for “shred“ (2 Kings 4:39), “attentive“ for “attent“ (2 Chron. 7:15), “upheld“ for “upholden“ (Job 4:4), “shaped“ for “shapen“ (Ps. 51:5), “shook“ for “shaked“ (Ps. 109:25), “ploughmen“ for “plowman“ (Isa. 28:24), “tablet“ for “table“ (Isa. 30:8), “cockatrice‘s eggs“ for “cockatrice‘ eggs“ (Isa. 59:5), “insatiable“ for “unsatiable“ (Ezek. 16:28), “hose“ for “hosen“ (Dan. 3:21), “overflowed“ for “overflown“ (Dan. 11:22), “vats“ for “fats“ (Joel 2:24), “tablets“ for “tables“ (Hab. 2:2), “priced“ for “prised“ (Zech. 11:13), “whilst” for “whiles” (Matt. 5:25), astonished“ for “astonied“ (Matt. 13:54), “oaths‘ sake“ for “oath‘s sake“ (Matt. 14:9), “unwashed“ for “unwashen“ (Matt. 15:20), “louring“ for “lowring“ (Matt. 16:3), “spat“ for “spit“ (Mark 8:23), “wine-vat“ for “wine fat“ (Mark 12:1), “Elizabeth“ for “Elisabeth“ (Luke 1:5), “leapt“ for “leaped“ (Luke 1:41), “writing-tablet“ for “writing table“ (Luke 1:63), “showing“ for “shewing“ (Luke 1:80), “thanks“ for “thank“ (Luke 6:32), “spat“ for “spitted“ (Luke 18:32), “others“ for “other“ (Luke 23:32), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11), “aware“ for “ware“ (Acts 14:6), “others“ for “other“ (Acts 17:9), “hoisted“ for “hoised“ (Acts 27:40), “immovable” for “unmoveable” (Acts 27:41), “incorruptible” for “incorruptible” (Rom. 1:23), “Timothy“ for “Timotheus“ (2 Cor. 1:19), “tablets“ for “tables“ (2 Cor. 3:3), “engraved“ for “engraven“ (2 Cor. 3:7), “all others“ for “all other“ (2 Cor. 13:2), “others“ for “other“ (Gal. 1:19), “sometime” for “sometimes” (Eph. 2:13, 5:8), “others“ for “other“ (Phil. 1:17, 2:3), “example” for “ensample” (Phil. 3:17), “establish“ for “stablish“ (1 Thess. 3:13), “braided“ for “broided“ (1 Tim. 2:9), “fly” for “flee” (1 Tim. 6:11), “Luke“ for “Lucas“ (Philemon 1:24), “tablets“ for “tables“ (Heb. 9:4), and “diverse“ for “divers“ (Heb. 13:9).

The 2011 edition by Norton makes a few other changes, not in the 2005 edition.

 

Why all the fuss? English is so heavily-used worldwide that it constantly undergoes small changes almost weekly, and from nation to nation. The main point of importance is that we UNDERSTAND the Bible we are reading, be it the KJV, ESV, or any other accurate translation.

I have a Cambridge Edition KJV, a repro AV 1611, and several other KJV volumes, likely 1769 editions. I understand all of them equally, despite the small differences in wording, spelling, etc.

And I also KNOW-not GUESS-that GOD IS NOT LIMITED to the KJV in English. that's why I have several other translations, from a repro Geneva to the ESV, and I also read Wycliffe's 1384 edition online. I have learned something from each & every one of them. After all, that's why God caused/allowed them to be made.