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Featured It's What You Do

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Nov 13, 2015.

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  1. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! (Matt. 6:23 NIV).

    Paul declares: For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light (Eph. 5:8).

    Also: Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness (1 Thess. 5:5).

    And: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son (Col. 1:13).

    Peter testifies: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light (1 Peter 2:9).

    These verses are yet further proof of our spiritually blind condition from birth.

    To deny this fundamental Christian truth is to embrace a fundamental tenet of Pelagianism.

    We were once ruled by the Prince of Darkness, Satan, the ruler of the darkness of this world (Eph. 6:12); the prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2).

    We were once among those in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them (2 Cor. 4:4).

    The facts are clearly before us:

    • All mankind come into this world spiritually blind sinners, bound to slavishly serve sin and Satan.


    • As such, mankind cannot see or comprehend that which is spiritual, the Gospel included.


    • The impossibility of our overcoming this spiritual inability by any power existing in ourselves is equivalent to the impossibility of a man born blind overcoming his blindness by sheer will power and desire……which is why the Holy Spirit deemed it necessary to include the miracle of John 9 in Christ’s catalogue of miracles.


    • It is Christ who gives sight to the spiritually blind.


    • Christians have been given the gift of spiritual sight by God’s free grace in Christ, without which they could not believe the Gospel…..even if preached by Christ Himself.
    But man’s situation is much more dire and complex than that of spiritual inability alone.

    Mankind loves darkness rather than light.

    In fact, mankind hates the light and willfully refuses to come to the light (John 3:19-20).

    How then is it possible to come to faith in Christ when men not only lack the ability, but lack the desire and will power due to hatred of the Light?

    Who then can be saved?

    The things which are impossible with men are possible with God (Luke 18:27).

    The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined (Isaiah 9:2).

    But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me (Romans 10:20).

    Such is the sovereign, omnipotent power of the Holy Spirit when born of the Spirit.

    Spiritual blindness is removed and spiritual sight given.

    Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

    3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

    4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

    5 The blind receive their sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

    6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me (Matt. 11:2-6).

    Is the reader offended in Christ?

    Is the reader offended to hear that unless Christ gives spiritual sight to the spiritually blind it is impossible for that sinner to see or believe spiritual truth?

    Is the reader offended to hear that no man can come unto Christ by his own strength, power, will, or intellect, except eyes of faith were sovereignly given unto him by His Father? (John 6:65).

    Is the reader offended to hear that the spiritual birth necessary to enter the Kingdom of God is graciously given to those of God’s sovereign choosing, independent of anything meritorious in man? (Romans 9:15-16).

    If so, you walk in darkness.

    It’s what you do.
     
    #41 Protestant, Jan 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  2. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Recently a Baptist pastor Board member argued for a free will in man which has the innate power to create saving faith without the sovereign, omnipotent, efficacious intervention of God:

    What this pastor and similar thinking non-Cal disciples neglect to consider is the scriptural truth presented in 2 Timothy 2:25-26:

    In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    Also: Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin (John 8:34 ESV).

    And let’s not forget Ephesians 2:1-3:

    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    Prior to regeneration we were the degenerate slaves of Satan, our Puppet Master, whom we willingly served in lust, love and obedience.

    The Bible teaches we serve one of two Masters: Jesus or Satan, aka God and mammon.

    We are born natural slaves of Satan, the strong man.

    We must be reborn by the Spirit before we can serve Christ, the Stronger Man.

    Once reborn by the omnipotent power and grace of God we yearn to be subservient to the will of God.

    We yearn to be obedient to His precepts.

    We yearn that He would mold us, using our lives on earth in such a way that glorifies Him to the utmost.

    In short, we yearn that every aspect of our lives be controlled by the Holy Spirit, the All-Wise, Omniscient so-called Divine ‘Puppeteer’ who knows what is best for us, His willing 'puppets'.

    Not my will, but thy will be done.

    We Christians who gladly admit our gift of faith was of God also gladly admit our slavish devotion to Satan was broken only by the omnipotent power of God’s grace, not by the impotent power of our will.

    It’s what God did for us.

    It’s what we preach.
     
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  3. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Romans 9:13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (KJV)

    An aging Baptist Board member recently made the following statement: “Jacob I loved, and Esau I loved less” is just as accurate a translation.”

    Biblehub.com has compiled 24 Bible versions of this verse:

    http://biblehub.com/romans/9-13.htm

    Twenty three dare to use the transitive verb ‘hated’, while one version (NLT) prefers ‘rejected.’

    No matter. The aging member spins his own authorized version, by his own divine authority.

    One can only imagine his translation of such verses as Matt. 25:31:

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye loved less, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

    And then there’s Psalm 5:5:

    The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou loveth less all workers of iniquity.

    Even the ones Jesus ‘never knew’ would be considered as ‘loved,’ since the Lord ‘loves’ all people, according to his theology :

    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I loved you less: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matt. 7:22-23).

    In reality the aging Baptist teaches a God who has both a benevolent love and a malevolent love.

    The partakers of his benevolent love are those He takes to Heaven where they will experience unspeakable joy forever.

    The partakers of his malevolent love are those He sends to Hell where they will experience unspeakable torment forever.

    But rest assured…….all are loved by God because God is love.

    If you are one who believes such unbiblical twaddle, you, too, are displaying signs of senility.

    You can’t help it……….It’s what you do.
     
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  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You can't help yourself can you?

    Ponder on this scripture:
    Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    In the light of your love for Christ, do you hate your parents, wife, and children with a passionate hatred, or do you simply love them less than your love for Christ,

    as it is conveyed in this paraphrase:
    (CEV) You cannot be my disciple, unless you love me more than you love your father and mother, your wife and children, and your brothers and sisters. You cannot come with me unless you love me more than you love your own life.
     
  5. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I believe that reference in Luke 14 was about being willing to leave this life on earth to attend the Marriage Supper.

    Luke 14:12-24 was about Jesus giving a parable about those invited to the King's Supper but were making excuses not to attend for the things of this life and their loved ones.

    Luke 14:25-35 was Jesus expounding on that parable as inferring the cost of discipleship as it was not about how we live this life down here, but being ready to leave this life and our loved ones down here.

    Luke 21:33-36 shows a necessity to pray to be able to escape from all the snares of this life which includes the cares of this life in how believers can overcharged themselves to them by commitments and promises. They need Him to set them free from them so they are free to go, and not have a commitment or promise binding them to stay behind.

    Luke 17:32-34 shows the danger of Lot's wife in loving this life too much so as to not wanting to leave it when the Bridegroom comes.

    The "cost" of discipleship is not about how we live our lives down here, but being ready to leave our lives down here when the Bridegroom comes. And even there, we all need His help as our Good Shepherd to not only keep us abiding in Him and His words in the KJV, but to be ready to go.

    So trust Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd today in finishing that race for you in carrying us over the finish line which is to His glory as the crowns we receive are really His crowning achievements in us.
     
  6. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Context is everything.

    The love of God is the issue, not the love of man.

    Luke 14:26 concerns the love of man.

    Romans 9:13 concerns the love of God in relation to the eternal purpose of God in election.

    In other words, salvation is by grace alone, according to the good pleasure of God, not according to the genealogy, will or efforts of man foreseen.

    Paul recognizes this OT truth citing the progeny of Abraham and Isaac.

    Not all their sons were of the promise. (The promise that YHWH would be their God and they would be His people.)

    Paul then uses this same divine truth of God’s sovereign mercy upon whom He will have mercy to teach the Roman Christian Gentiles (as well as all future Gentile converts) that they, too, have nothing for which to boast.

    Rather, they have every reason to praise God in all humility and thanksgiving.

    For God chose them, drew them, revealed Himself to them and saved them when they were not seeking Him, nor praying for salvation.

    But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me (Romans 10:20).

    The love of God for His Elect is the motivating factor in God’s will to save.

    It is they alone who are the vessels of mercy, recipients of His unfailing saving love.

    But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) (Ephesians 2:4-5).

    In love having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will (Ephesians 1:4-5)
     
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  7. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    A Baptist Board Administrator said:

    TRANSLATION: “Spiritually Blind Sinner From Birth, God has provided everything you need to come to Christ on your own volition. Now it’s up to you to make the first move.”

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I like your pic. May I steal it? :D
     
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  9. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Freely I have stolen, so freely thou may steal <grin>
     
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  10. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Not true...

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.....64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    There are more scripture testifying to God knowing whom is seeking Him from those that love their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them. Matthew 7:7-8 John 3:18-21 Matthew 11:25-27

    God sent the disciples to Macedonia after turning them away from Asia and Bithynia because God knew they would not receive Him there at that time, and so He knew those in Macedonia were seeking Him.

    Acts 16: 6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

    Even the disciples were instructed that at times, they may be led away from preaching the gospel.

    Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    The gospel is available for all, but not every one will believe, and it is because they love their sins, even the sin of unbelief, more than to come to Him to be saved.

    So our believing in Jesus Christ as the Son of the living God is a work of God the Father.

    Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    A Protestant swears they are saved by FAITH ALONE. Good Works are useless.

    Bickers about Catholics doing "WRONG" YET you yourselves claim there is no such thing as a requirement of "DOING RIGHT"?

    GOOD WORKS of Loving God making him the first priority is required for salvation?

    THE SCORE:
    GOOD WORKS 1 FAITH ALONE 0
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Apart from the intervention of God it is impossible for a man to love God.


    1 John 4:19

    We love him, because he first loved us.


    And just for the record I am not a Protestant, though I doth protest often.


    ;)


    God bless.
     
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  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely, Apart from the intervention from God I can't even live my next breathe.


    Very next verse shows the order which God dictates we receive the ability to Love him.

    1 John 4:20
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

    "cannot love GOD"

    One who does not love the brothers he sees, doesn't have the ability to Love God.

    Biggrin
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    We would not equate God's provision for physical life with the Provision for eternal life through Christ. Unbelievers reject God yet breathe on, not knowing that his breath is in his nostrils, lol.

    The context we have in front of us is distinctly salvific, not general. And again, we see that God's love precedes our ability to love Him.

    And I would ask you, my friend, when you were saved, or, if you are of the belief that men are not saved until they run the race properly, when you became a believer...did you automatically love God? Has your love for God changed at all during your walk with Christ?

    The point is that we should, I feel, grow to love God more as we better understand exactly what it is He has done for us.


    The verse does not suggest that God's love is a reward for our own loving of the brethren, but simply that those who say they love God yet hate those they have direct access to are liars, and are false professors of faith. Just as James points out those who do not evidence the works of a sincere believer are liars.

    The intervention I speak of is God giving to men/women the ability to understand truth. And He does that due to His love for us.


    God bless.
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I believe what the scripture says. Just to be sure I checked the original greek.

    It was more brutal:

    οὐ δύναται ἀγαπᾶν.

    Not Able To Love.




    Reminds me of another verse:

    Matthew 6
    14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

    Jesus Christ, God almighty selects his own order of things.


    Do you agree with Gods way?^

    Or do you like my way?

    For if God forgives you your transgression, Then you will forgive others. I like it backwards too. Devilish
     
  16. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Good works have their place but not for salvation. That would be like saying Jesus was not quite able to save us and so He needs a little help. You can't call Him the Savior unless He actually did save you; and He did.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

    So good works are for us to do but not for salvation, because they are good and profitable unto men.

    1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

    If you think you are doing good works for your salvation, that is like insulting your Savior as if He had not really saved you for trusting Him to have done it.

    How do you go around telling Jesus is your Savior when all people see is that you are the savior by doing the works of catholicism?
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    God knows those who are seeking Him because He's the One who is drawing them.
     
  18. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    Are you a Holy Inquisitor? Then you know what to do and how to do it.

    Waterboarding ain’t got nothing on you.

    But have you heard the latest?

    The cruel and sadistic Spanish Inquisition was a lie spawned by the Protestants!

    According to the Roman Catholic website, Tradition in Action, many forms of torture, such as the Wheel and Iron Maiden were never used. http://www.traditioninaction.org/movies/026_BBC.htm

    In fact, they say the Catholic tribunal was anything but cruel and sadistic.

    For blaspheming criminals it was the preferred place of incarceration; the envy of the land.

    This present writer’s prayer is that when Walter and Utilyan’s Holy Inquisitors come to take me away for heresy they not hang me upside down.

    It makes me quite queasy. I'll spill more than the 'beans.'

    I prefer the rake, thank you very much.

    It’s so much more ‘restrained,’ ‘fair,’ and ‘levelheaded.’

    Discover what Peter Gabriel, monkeys and the Spanish Inquisition have in common HERE
     
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  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Catholicism, you can call it what you will. What it is, is a son's love for his father.


    I agree with the scripture cited Jesus was not motivated by works to save us.

    To be clear I don't do good works for Salvation. I love God for free.

    Not everyone is motivated by fear, reward and consequences.

    The GOOD WORK Loving God remains the highest priority. I will not toss loving God aside for any price, even eternal life.

    You only care about the bare minimum to save your own skin.

    If God offers me salvation for loving him, I'm going to take it and give it to you, and you can keep it.

    I love my Father for free.

    I trust him, he trusts me.


    Hark, I believe you are capable of loving God and putting him first in your life. Salvation is like training wheels, your looking for ways to have assurances over God, that's not trust brother.

    Your keeping your eyes on FEAR when they should be on Christ. You got salvation, I got Jesus so now what?

    I'm telling you to Love God right now. This one moment is greater then all eternal lives stacked together. Eternal life, millions of dollars, everything you can want, if You don't have love, you have nothing. God is Love.
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I've been on that wheel! FUN!Biggrin

    Wait are you saying we should engage in the good work of not torturing folks and love them instead? That I should throw away all the catholic ninja training I went through?Ninja


    Inquisition ain't nothing. Catholics have killed billions, especially where they were the only thing around.
     
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