Featured Berean Proof the Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. Challenge

Since scripture says the Holy Spirit will not speak for Himself, ( John 16:13 ) but to glorify Jesus Christ ( John 16:14 ) by testifying of the Son ( John 15:26 ) which is exactly what He is leading believers to do ( John 15:27 ) and to avoid having unrighteousness in seeking His own glory ( John 7:18 ), how can we be led by the Holy Spirit in any other way in worship?

The Holy Spirit will not lead us to glorify Himself with the Father & the Son in worship.

 

Since judgment on believers is how we honor the Son or not honor the Son, then we are led by the Holy Spirit to honor the Son in serving God.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Maybe the church back then missed these references?

Colossians 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

That pretty much shows how fast the church back then deferred from the earlier churches in the N.T.

Thanks for sharing, brother.

 

In part, I am glad, and yet not totally at ease, because the way still has been broadened to allow seducing spirits to come in when worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. The "holy laughter" movement has happened across the denomenations as proof it is a false prophet ( Matthew 7:15-16 ), and the only link scripturally is what Jesus warned about in Matthew 7:13-14 for why they are falling down in these movements of the "Spirit" in Matthew 7:24-27

Jesus said that God the Father has set up a judgment on all believers to follow.

John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is because of other spirits in the world is why the way is narrow in the worship place in coming to God the Father.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So I can see why the solution to avoid being led astray is to narrow the way back to keeping that spotlight on the Son in worship because He is the only way we can honor & glorify God the Father by.

I am not sure how calling on the name of the Lord to be saved is not calling on Jesus in prayer.

There is also this truth to be had that Jesus is inbetween us and the Father when it comes to prayer as being at that throne of grace by Whom we have access to God the Father in prayer.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Now that He has ascended, when we do see Jesus again, He will not pray for us as we can ask the Father directly.

John 16:22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

So going before that throne of grace now is asking Jesus for help, but we can pray to the Father by Him as well.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus is our Passover Lamb by Whom we can have access to God the Father in prayer. Soon, when we have been made perfect, and see Jesus face to face, we will be free to ask the Father directly in His name.

No. It is not about denying the deity of the Holy Spirit nor denying the doctrine of the Trinity, but God is not glorified by glorifying the name of the Trinity. God is only glorified in the Son as it is His name above every other name to the glory of God the Father which is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship. Philippians 2:5-13

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

 

Since judgment on believers is how we honor the Son or not honor the Son, then we are led by the Holy Spirit to honor the Son in serving God.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

I believe it is because there are other spirits in the world as well as spirit worship that God the Father provided only one way for sinners to come to Him in worship and that is by the only way of the Son as God the Father can only be glorified in the Son Whom the Holy Spirit has been sent to glorify the Son through the believers.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

 

What did you think Jesus was taking about in Matthew 7:13-14 other than how we approach God the Father by in worship ?

How else did the "holy laughter" movement happen across the denomenations in 1994 ( Matthew 7:15-16 ) unless they all thought that was the Holy Spirit coming into the worship place when worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

Did not these professing believers did everything in His name ( Matthew 7:21-23 ) ? And yet they were denied by Him as these be the ones that fell down in these movements of the "Spirit" ( Matthew 7:24-27 ) which was not the Holy Spirit... FYI.

Luke's version to avoid that was to narrow the way back to the straight gate ( Luke 13;24 ) so this is applicable to departing from the Father's will because Jesus said the only way to honor & to glorify the Father was by honoring & glorifying the Son in worship.

That may not be an accurate assessment when they may very well teach seeking the gifts of the Spirit from the Holy Spirit Himself in prayer.

Edited: I do not know how that pink smiley face sticking his tongue out at you got in there, brother, but I took it out. Sorry.

It is that comes with no interpretation always comes by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again in these instances, only because visitations of what they believe was the Holy Spirit on believers in bringing that tongue, those believers had been saved a while before that second phenomenon which that second phenomenon was not of God at all.

It is more than likely, they derived the Nicene creed from the source documents of Alexandria other than the actual scriptural ones from Antioch, ( Acts 11:26 ) since it deviates by sharing the glory of that Giver of life Whom is the Son of God which all Bibles testify of in John 6:30-35 but run contrary in most modern Bibles when capitalizing "spirit" in John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 which was not about the Person of the Holy Spirit at all.

It goes to show that the history of the early church was not in line with the earlier church that was in the N.T. It is time to prove everything by Him by the meat of His words as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the KJV that was derived from the source documents from Antioch.

 

Scripture points to how we come to God the Father in worship; John 4:23 and that is by the only way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) and that is what the indwelling Holy Spirit is sent to do in leading us to do while dwelling in us. We cannot be led by the Holy Spirit in any other way.

Just ask the Lord Jesus if you are overlooking something that He wants you to receive as truths.

 

I think we have reached that point in the discussion between you and me that we have to leave it in God's hands.

 

Okay. Thank you for sharing.

The question is;

How can we worship the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit will not lead us to speak of Himself in seeking His own glory with the Father & the Son?

I trust the Lord to draw your attention back to the scriptures in the second post next to the OP as to why those references you mentioned do not null and void them at all, and how the way you are applying your references, those scripture in the second post next to the OP reproves such application. But again, I leave you in God's hand.

Thank you for sharing, brother.

 

The point of the OP is to prove everything by the scripture and there is no basis for that practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. It is an assumption because of the fact that the Holy Spirit is God that He should be worshiped with the Father & the Son, but it is a wrong assumption and an unBiblical one too as it runs against the truths in the scriptures posted in post # 2 after the OP in this thread.

That old benediction is also cannot be supported by the scripture.

Many hymnals that focus on the Holy Spirit in worship as well as the "blessed Trinity" is also not supported by scripture as how God the Father is honored & glorified in worship. Philippians 2:9-11 & John 13:31-32

How can one address the Holy Spirit in worship with the Father & the Son without addressing the Holy Spirit singularly until they do address the Father & the Son in worship?

How is it that since the Holy Spirit is God, why would God the Father allow the devil to respond with signs and lying wonders when the Holy Spirit is addressed in worship & prayer?

Are the promises of God nay and yea? All the promises of God are yea, but the only way to approach God the Father in anything is by way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) So there is no going around Jesus by going to the Father by way of the Holy Spirit ( John 10:1 )

Unless you had given a wrong reference, that reads differently in the KJV.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

You should have a problem when the Holy Spirit is already in you since you were saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Singing that hymn is like denying Him as in you at that moment as if He is not in you yet.

That "opening" in that hymn is all a seducing spirits needs to come over a believer with a sign, even a sign of tongues that never comes with interpretation, to lure other believers to seek after the same, thus falling away from the faith ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 ) and becoming an adulterous generation ( Matthew 12:39 )

It doesn't matter if YOU know better. If you allow that practice to occur in church worship, then you will never convince those that was not the Holy Spirit coming over them with a sign when it happens because you sang that hymn, you had prayed that prayer, or you had addressed to honor the Holy Spirit in worship.

Jesus warned about broadening the way ( Matthew 7:13-14 ) where in the end, believers will fall down in these movement of the "Spirit" which was not the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 7:24-27 ), and the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son; Luke 13:24 & keep that spotlight on Him in worship if any one seeks to honor & glorify God the Father in Heaven.

That is what the real indwelling Holy Spirit seeks to do in leading us to do whereas seducing spirits would want to share in the spotlight of the Son in worship and steal it for signs and lying wonders upon their visitations.

 

Maybe not the word worship in that particular reference, but the practice of worship is there when you sing TO the Lord.

Did you take that at face value or did you prove that by the Bible?

Singing can accompany worship of God as it is in the Bible.

2 Chronicles 29:28 And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.....30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the Lord with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah.

So that reference about singing spiritual songs and hymns TO the Lord is a reference to that worship.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

How do christians are to come to worship God the Father now?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

In context, Jesus is saying that believer need not go to a specific place any more but they can come to God the Father anywhere by this one way; by the way of the Son by honoring & glorifying the Son in worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is the point of the OP is to show how those led by the Spirit of God will not be led any other way in worship than to honor & glorify the Son.

I do thank you for your participation and sharing, no matter how brief.