MacArthur teaches works based salvation

[evangelist6589]

This is the claim of some. I challenge those with this claim to show me this teaching in one of his books and I will research it for myself. Please cite page numbers and the name of the book. I have most of Macs books except his commentaries so please cite one of his theological books (i.e. Faith Works) in your response. Also his books are in print as I own none of his books electronically.

Please do not cite YouTube videos, blogs, web articles, tweets, or other second hand sources.

 

[Revmitchell]

That's funny, a Calvinist being accused of teaching a works based salvation.

 

[evangelist6589]

That's funny, a Calvinist being accused of teaching a works based salvation.

Cite a book please and page numbers.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Works are an evidence of salvation, not the cause of it. Huge difference.

 

[preachinjesus]

The challenge here is his emphasis on so-called lordship salvation which adds, as a "fruit of salvation" (not his quote) the demonstration of the changed life. This can, for some who don't fully understand it, make salvation appear to the works based. It is, of course, not the case. So, for those who misunderstand the concept, they attempt to make it out to be your faith is not finalized or secure until you demonstrate the fruits of the changed life. From the criticisms of lordship I've read, this one, that it is "works based" simply misunderstands the case the lordship advocates are making.

 

[Deacon]

Coming from a Free Grace perspective myself, I disagree with the way MacArthur presents the gospel but can workout what and why he says what he does. My simple disagreement comes down to his putting the emphasis on the wrong syll-ABLE.

As a teen, my initial faith was so simple that I don't believe MacArthur would classify it as such.
I knew nothing about Lordship or repentance from my sins; I knew only that he was the one I could turn to for help in a time of trouble... and I did. Faith met the gospel and from there change began in my life.

While my church is of the Free-Grace perspective, we associate with a number of churches in our community, one that even preaches a Lordship Gospel. Oddly enough it was the Lordship church that eventually decided to separate from us.

Rob

 

[Internet Theologian]

John MacArthurs explanation of the Gospel and it's effects in a true conversion reflect the teachings of the early church. That this message is so shocking to many today only shows that these misunderstand the true Gospel and what true conversion entails.

 

[Internet Theologian]

This is the claim of some. I challenge those with this claim to show me this teaching in one of his books and I will research it for myself. Please cite page numbers and the name of the book. I have most of Macs books except his commentaries so please cite one of his theological books (i.e. Faith Works) in your response. Also his books are in print as I own none of his books electronically.

Please do not cite YouTube videos, blogs, web articles, tweets, or other second hand sources.

I'm waiting for the evidence. I've seen nothing of it in this thread a snide slandering remark aside.

Good OP by the way.

 

[JonC]

This is the claim of some. I challenge those with this claim to show me this teaching in one of his books and I will research it for myself. Please cite page numbers and the name of the book. I have most of Macs books except his commentaries so please cite one of his theological books (i.e. Faith Works) in your response. Also his books are in print as I own none of his books electronically.

Please do not cite YouTube videos, blogs, web articles, tweets, or other second hand sources.

There are some who object to Lordship Salvation as a works based salvation, but sometimes they object to a view not truly held by many (I suppose it would be unfair to say "all") as "Lordship Salvation." We do not believe in Jesus as Savior and as Lord, but as Savior and Lord. If He is our Savior then He is our Lord (He is never presented in Scripture as Savior in any other way). Of course, there are also arguments against that position (I don't believe them true, but they are valid disagreements ).

I actually think that John MacArthur has addressed this sufficiently and this is summarized on his church's website.

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A114/an-introduction-to-lordship-salvation

Was this claimed on the BB, or are you referring to Lordship Salvation in general?

 

[evangelist6589]

Coming from a Free Grace perspective myself, I disagree with the way MacArthur presents the gospel but can workout what and why he says what he does. My simple disagreement comes down to his putting the emphasis on the wrong syll-ABLE.

As a teen, my initial faith was so simple that I don't believe MacArthur would classify it as such.
I knew nothing about Lordship or repentance from my sins; I knew only that he was the one I could turn to for help in a time of trouble... and I did. Faith met the gospel and from there change began in my life.

While my church is of the Free-Grace perspective, we associate with a number of churches in our community, one that even preaches a Lordship Gospel. Oddly enough it was the Lordship church that eventually decided to separate from us.

Rob

Can you give me the website of this Lordship church? I would love to look at their doctrinal statement and learn and get ideas.

 

[evangelist6589]

I'm waiting for the evidence. I've seen nothing of it in this thread a snide slandering remark aside.

Good OP by the way.

I have both versions of Faith Works and the 2nd edition of the Gospel According to Jesus not counting Ashamed of the Gospel, and many other of Mac's theological books, however I do not own many of his commentaries. People are welcome to read a Mac book dealing with LS and tell me what they think.

 

[evangelist6589]

There are some who object to Lordship Salvation as a works based salvation, but sometimes they object to a view not truly held by many (I suppose it would be unfair to say "all") as "Lordship Salvation." We do not believe in Jesus as Savior and as Lord, but as Savior and Lord. If He is our Savior then He is our Lord (He is never presented in Scripture as Savior in any other way). Of course, there are also arguments against that position (I don't believe them true, but they are valid disagreements ).

I actually think that John MacArthur has addressed this sufficiently and this is summarized on his church's website.

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A114/an-introduction-to-lordship-salvation

Was this claimed on the BB, or are you referring to Lordship Salvation in general?

People disagree with Lordship Salvation and think that Mac invented it, or is the only one that promotes it. These views are false as I own a book from 1983 where the author (not Mac) teaches Lordship Salvation.

 

[JonC]

People disagree with Lordship Salvation and think that Mac invented it, or is the only one that promotes it. These views are false as I own a book from 1983 where the author (not Mac) teaches Lordship Salvation.

If the Bible doesn't teach it, then it is probably wrong. A better answer would have simply been that MacArthur didn't invent Lordship Salvation. But I know what you mean....I just didn't realize that this was an argument going around the BB (that MacArthur invented the doctrine).

 

[Revmitchell]

Cite a book please and page numbers.

Try looking at your title. No need to go any farther.

 

[Revmitchell]

If the Bible doesn't teach it, then it is probably wrong. A better answer would have simply been that MacArthur didn't invent Lordship Salvation. But I know what you mean....I just didn't realize that this was an argument going around the BB (that MacArthur invented the doctrine).

Oh yea its out there. Largely due to the book he wrote.

 

[JonC]

Oh yea its out there. Largely due to the book he wrote.

That's the problem with writing books. When you bring to people's attention a biblical truth they've ignored most of their lives the assumption is made that you've invented it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Try looking at your title. No need to go any farther.

Do you know the phrase that is on my mind at this time?

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you know the phrase that is on my mind at this time?

Honestly I do not understand your question. What would a page number have to do with what I said?

 

[Revmitchell]

That's the problem with writing books. When you bring to people's attention a biblical truth they've ignored most of their lives the assumption is made that you've invented it.

I agree

 

[TCassidy]

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God ordained before that we would walk in them."

The question is not can a man live in open sin after salvation. The question is what constitutes open sin in God's eyes?

Are two people living together as man and wife without benefit of a marriage license living in sin?

Do rumors and innuendo constitute facts?