Christians Should Mind Their Own Business

On November 24, 1859, Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species was published and immediately very well received by the scientific community, but much less well by Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Even today, the very large majority of Sunni Muslims reject the theory of evolution as a lie due to their literal interpretation of Genesis 1-11. The same is true of Shia Muslims, but to less of an extent. The very large majority of Jews today fully embrace the theory of evolution, and the cognizant and reasonably well educated Christians by and large embrace the theory.

I agree—belief in a nearly spherical earth rather than a flat earth and belief in the theory of evolution came very much later than the belief that the earth was created by God in six days.

The Bible, when interpreted literally, teaches that the earth is flat, and this literal interpretation was nearly universally held by Christians until the Roman Catholic Church accepted as true what had been taught by scientists for centuries regarding the shape of the earth—and our fundamentalist Baptist Churches tenaciously hold to that Roman Catholic point of view.

Who told you that Jesus affirmed the narratives found in Genesis 1-11? Most certainly the Bible does not tell us that—and I do NOT believe the Jesus believed that the earth is flat! Jesus, Luke, Paul, the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, Peter, and Jude all used popular stories from the Old Testament to teach their lessons—just as Sunday school teachers do today, but that does NOT mean that they all believed that the earth is flat!

I suppose that there might be some hyper-intellecutalist snobs [who] interpret scripture through the lens of ‘science’, but that would be ridiculous foolishness because religion is religion, and science is science—and anyone who confuses the two does not understand either of them.

This statement is a lie from hell!

Quotes taken out of context with the deliberate and willful purpose to deceive Christians are an abomination!

Please stop lying about the scientific community, and about the tens of thousands of evangelical Christians who believe in the theory of evolution but would never condemn those who do not!

 

This post, and most of the other posts by this individual, are inconsistent with the facts.

 

The article linked to in this post is shamefully dishonest nonsense because it willfully and deliberately attempts to deceive its readers into believing that there are scholars of Genesis today who believe that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are an accurate account of historic events, but neither Gary Vander Hart nor any one else can name even so much as one scholar of Genesis today publishing his research on Genesis 1-11 in a peer-reviewed biblical journal who believes such nonsense! Such extreme and unwarranted dishonesty on the part of a man representing himself as a Christian is absolutely appalling and inexcusable!

 

Is it impossible on a Christian message board to ask a question in a polite manner without any snarling innuendos?

I defined in my post that has been quoted above what I mean by a “scholar” of Genesis 1-11,

A current researcher “publishing his research on Genesis 1-11 in a peer-reviewed biblical journal.”

For more than a century, it has been nearly universally acknowledged by scholars of Genesis that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are written a genre of literature that is distinctly different from the rest of Genesis. Indeed, in my very early days as a Christian, before I even knew what a Bible commentary was, while reading Genesis I noticed that beginning in Genesis 12:1 I was reading literature written in a genre very different from what I had been reading.

Even a cursory examination of the research being published today on Genesis will show that Genesis 1-11 is being studied today as a distinct unit of Scripture, and that Genesis 12-50 is being studied today as another distinct unit of Scripture, and that both units of Scripture are being interpreted according to the Genre of literature in which they are written. It should be observed, however, that within Genesis 12-50 there is a considerable amount of poetry that is, of course, being studied as poetry.

 

Of course poetry can reflect the actual truth of what happened—but that fact is irrelevant to what I posted.

 

There are some liberal Bible scholars who insist that the creation accounts in Genesis are poetry rather than prose, but I firmly believe that these scholars are seriously mistaken. However, there are in Genesis numerous examples of poetry. In the Gen 1-11 we find the following examples,

Genesis 1:27; 3:14-19; 4:23-24; 8:22; 9:6, 25-27

The example in chapter four is especially beautiful,

23. Lamech said to his wives:
“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say:
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for striking me.
24. If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold.” (NRSV)

Some of these men teach in universities; others teach in seminaries representing a very wide range of Christian denominations—including Baptist denominations. Some are conservative in their theology; others are liberal in their theology. However, they all have one thing in common—they have such an ardent love of the Scriptures that they have chosen to devote their lives to the study of them. However, what matters is that the data supports their conclusions—which we have not yet gotten to in this thread.

 

No, my faith is in our Lord Christ Jesus and in the word of God—but how should we interpret the word of God as it is presented to us in Gen. 1-11? Should we interpret it in a strictly literal sense as did most Jews and Christians until the 15th century when the Roman Catholic Church yielded to centuries of scientific investigation which conclusively proved that the earth is not flat, but nearly spherical?


Genesis 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (NRSV)

This is a strictly literal translation of Gen. 1:6 that is perfectly harmonious with other parts of Genesis, especially chapters 6-8 in which we read of the flood. Notice especially 7:11,

7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (KJV)

7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. (NRSV)

What were the flood gates of the sky if they were not gates (or windows, KJV) in the dome? This was the literal interpretation by Christian fundamentalists until nearly the middle of the last millennium. Indeed, these Christians dearly held to the ancient Jewish interpretation that the earth was flat and covered with a dome that separated the waters above the dome from the surface of the earth—and the waters below the earth which the Bible calls “the great deep.” This was seen as a biblical truth that Satan and his hosts were seeking to destroy by the liberal teaching that the earth was nearly a perfect sphere rather than a disk covered by a dome. After all, if the earth was spherical, it could not be covered with a dome and the biblical account of the flood could not be true. Today’s Christian fundamentalists argue that the NRSV was translated predominately by liberals—and so it was—but their translation of Genesis 1:6 is a very literal translation that is in perfect harmony with the understanding of the story of the flood by Christian fundamentalists until comparatively recent times.

Therefore, I ask myself, “Is the story of the flood in Gen. 6-8 an accurate account of an historic event, or is it something else? Has God chosen to teach us fundamental truths about Himself and His creation, including man, using a series of epic tales, myths, legends, or sagas? In these latter times, is God making clear details regarding Genesis 1-11 that had not been clear in earlier times? Should not Genesis 1-11—and indeed all of Scripture—be approached in an attitude of prayer and a desire to learn from our heavenly Father through the ministry of the Holy Spirit the truths that He desires for us to know and understand?”

 

What happened to my post that you quoted from!

 

Well…apparently some kind of a glitch occurred so I will repost it.

Science does not take a stand either for or against miracles because miracles are outside of it scope. I am a conservative evangelical Christian who has posted in this very thread that I not only believe in miracles, but have witnessed them myself.

Ancient Hebrew cosmology expressly teaches that the earth is flat and covered with a dome, and that teaching is expressly taught in the Bible.

ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃ Gen. 1:7

Gen. 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya‛) as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

According to ancient Hebrew cosmology based upon Genesis, Job, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other books in the Old Testament, the universe is composed of three parts.

The heavens (Hebrew = שָׁמַיִם [shâmayim]) above,
The earth (Hebrew = אֶרֶץ [eh'-rets]) in the middle
The world of the dead (Hebrew שְׁאוֹל [sheh-ole'] below

For a diagram of this universe, and much more information from Christian scholars, please see here, http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm

The story of the Genesis flood is dependent upon this cosmology:

Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

Moreover, only a flat earth has four corners:

Isa. 11:12. He will raise a signal for the nations,
and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather the dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth. (NRSV)

Rev.7:1. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. (NRSV)

The literal four corners of the earth in the Bible gave rise to today’s popular expression.

Furthermore, Jesus was able to see all the kingdoms of the world from “a very high mountain.” This would have been impossible on a spherical earth:

Matt. 4:8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; (NRSV)