Because I would like to know what you believe on this subject. Isn't that the purpose of the forum? The exchange of ideas and the discussion of the same?
I am trying to ascertain whether or not you believe God is Sovereign in salvation.
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About Hebrews' warning: Do not draw back to perdition
- Thread starter Browner
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God has always demanded the co-operation of His people,
which is what a covenant is all about.
No need AT ALL for ANY of the many covenants,
IF man does NOT have a part to play!
So, you have never heard of a unilateral covenant?
Here, I will explain it to you. A "covenant" is a contract or formal agreement to do something. It can be unilateral or bilateral. A unilateral covenant is like the drawing up of a "will" or "testament" where the person has virtually no constraint on what they decide, and the other party or parties have no say at all.
Now study up on the Abrahamic Covenant.
Then study up on the Covenant of Grace.
" . . . in the covenant of grace, that is, in the gospel, which is the proclamation of the covenant of grace, there are no demands and no conditions. For God gives what He demands; Christ has finished all and has merited regeneration, faith and conversion for us; and the Holy Spirit applies them. But the covenant of grace does assume the form of a demand and a condition, to acknowledge man in his rational and moral nature, also to deal with him, although fallen, as created after God’s image, in order that also upon this highest plane, . . . he may be rendered responsible and inexcusable and enable him, consciously and freely, to enter into the covenant and break with sin. The covenant of grace is; therefore, surely unilateral, it proceeds from God; He has planned and established it. He maintains and realizes it; it is a work of God Triune and completed, finished among the three Persons mutually." H. Bavinck, “Gereformeerde Dogmatiek,” volume III, page 225.
dad1
Member
You need to interpret Scripture using what is known. The fact eternal life is the gift of God and will never be taken away is fact number one. Whatever contorting or interpreting you do must bow to that.
dad1
Member
You need to interpret Scripture using what is known. The fact eternal life is the gift of God and will never be taken away is fact number one. Whatever contorting or interpreting you do must bow to that.
dad1
Member
I don't even like the word sovereign. Name one verse in the bible with it?! He died to give us a free gift for the asking and will cast no one away that comes to Him.
You may be laboring under a misconception. IT believes in eternal security. You are preaching to the choir.
dad1
Member
The cooperation needed for accepting the free gift of Jesus is to ask! He fills the hungry heart. After that it is a matter of rewards in heaven, and learning stuff...not on again off again yo yo salvation so called like the Calvinists play.
dad1
Member
Right, so if someone is saved they are saved period right? Or do you think if they sin and you catch them they never maybe were really saved?
dad1
Member
Right, so if someone is saved they are saved period right? Or do you think if they sin and you catch them they never maybe were really saved?
dad1
Member
We must chose to accept Him. He doesn't force us or have it all rigged.
dad1
Member
We must chose to accept Him. He doesn't force us or have it all rigged.
dad1
Member
No need to ask anyone to get right with God either if it was all jerryrigged in advance. No need for warnings, salvation...heck...anything at all really.
The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission. God works not just some things but all things according to the counsel of His own will (see Ephesians 1:11). His purposes are all-inclusive and never thwarted (see Isaiah 46:11); nothing takes Him by surprise. The sovereignty of God is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things, but that He does so, always and without exception. In other words, God is not merely sovereign de jure (in principle), but sovereign de facto (in practice).
So, by saying you don't like the word are you denying the above or is it just something about the word "Sovereign" (meaning "King" or "Ruler") that bothers you?
Name one verse in the bible with the word "bible" in it? But that doesn't mean I don't believe the bible.
Name one verse in the bible with the word "Trinity" in it, but that does not mean I deny the Trinity.
Free but you have to ask? Why would you ask for thing you don't know, can't understand, can't receive, that you consider foolish, can't know, and is offered by your enemy? 1 Corinthians 2:14; Romans 8:7.
Why would you make such an untrue statement? You do know Browner believes in salvation by works and you are agreeing with him?
And who will do that?
Who has said He would force us, or that he had rigged something (with the implication of dishonestly)?
Why would you make such a hateful statement? Do you really believe God is that dishonest?
If a person is saved they are saved for all eternity.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
There certainly are people who claim to be saved but are not. But we have no way of knowing who they are. We cannot see their hearts. All we can see is their outer life.
If a person says he is an atheist, curses God and Christ, and lives a life of sin and dissipation, I may conclude that person was one of the above who made a false claim of salvation but now is being honest about who he is and what he believes. But even then I cannot know his heart.
God has not given us the ministry of judgmentalism. God has given us the ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.) Our job is to preach "Be Ye Reconciled to God." The rest is up to God. We don't save. He saves. We don't keep. He keeps. All of Him and none of me.
Let's see....Dad 1.....He will cast N
NE AWAY THAT WILL COME TO HIM........really! Glad you believe that. So lets look at the verse except we will use the whole verse, you know...the part you chopped offCautiousCautiousCautiousCautious37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
or here;
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Here is a Cal yo yo trick for you...it is called rock the Arminian...... back to the bible texts
dad1
Member
So that doesn't apply to salvation then, He gave us that choice.
I dislike the foolish insinuation that God has us as some sort of predestined zombies. That is not what He or us is all about. That misses it all.
The three persons of God is real clear and a wonderful thing. I don't mind that word. If someone doesn't like it I can use other words, not fanatical about it.
Salvation is well know, wise, easy enough for a child to comprehend, and receive, and enemies do not offer it, Jesus does! Boy you better get back to the drawing board.
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