About Hebrews' warning: Do not draw back to perdition

[dad1]

Why would you make such an untrue statement? You do know Browner believes in salvation by works and you are agreeing with him?

I have heard some, like John MacArthur teach about how some folks fall away and that is because they never were saved. This is news to you?

 

[TCassidy]

I have heard some, like John MacArthur teach about how some folks fall away and that is because they never were saved. This is news to you?

So, are you saying that everyone who makes a false profession of faith is saved? Is this some sort of universalism?

 

[dad1]

]

If a person is saved they are saved for all eternity.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

That is meaningless when coming from someone like a Calvinist who also teaches that you just were not saved if you sin in a way they feel is outrageous. Some probably even think not going to their silly church any more would be 'falling away'! Ha.

There certainly are people who claim to be saved but are not. But we have no way of knowing who they are. We cannot see their hearts. All we can see is their outer life.

The lady who saw Peter deny Christ had a limited perspective. The soldiers who saw the disciples flee the garden one night ad a limited perspective. The folks who may have seen the stinker Paul cited that had to be delivered to Satan to die so that he could have his spirit still live had a limited perspective! Etc etc. You have a limited perspective.

If a person says he is an atheist, curses God and Christ, and lives a life of sin and dissipation, I may conclude that person was one of the above who made a false claim of salvation but now is being honest about who he is and what he believes. But even then I cannot know his heart.

No. Salvation is NOT up to us anymore after we have it! Man may lie but God is not a man that He should lie. Even though we are faithless yet He abideth faithful. He cannot deny Himself. His word is sure. I know one person that now claims to be an atheist, but I don't really believe it. I consider them backslidden. So we cannot judge.

I can judge the Obama regime, that is is a very anti Christ anti bible thing. I would like to stop it there and not judge that he is hell bound, since maybe he is just very very very very very very backslidden and/or not yet saved. How would we know? I can judge the works though.

 

[dad1]

Let's see....Dad 1.....He will cast NNE AWAY THAT WILL COME TO HIM........really! Glad you believe that. So lets look at the verse except we will use the whole verse, you know...the part you chopped offCautiousCautiousCautiousCautious

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

or here;
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If we ask for His salvation sincerely the Father gave us to Jesus! No one needs your extra criteria or opinion on it.

 

[dad1]

So, are you saying that everyone who makes a false profession of faith is saved? Is this some sort of universalism?

No, but who does that? Who would know? God knows. I assume most of us are sincere when we pray for forgiveness and ask for the eternal life Jesus died for and promised us.

 

[TCassidy]

I dislike the foolish insinuation that God has us as some sort of predestined zombies.

So you deny predestination? Do you think Ephesians 1:5 (Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,) and 1:11 (In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.) are wrong?

And can you please post a quote from anyone on this thread who has claimed that "God has us as some sort of predestined zombies?" Thank you.

The three persons of God is real clear and a wonderful thing.

So is "Salvation is of the Lord."

Salvation is well know, wise, easy enough for a child to comprehend, and receive, and enemies do not offer it, Jesus does!

So you deny Romans 8:7 (Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.) is scripture? Or 1 Corinthians 2:14 (Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.)?

Boy you better get back to the drawing board.

First, I am not your boy. In fact I am well over a decade older than you. I was in high school while you were busy being born.

As for the drawing board, I am not a draftsman, or artist of any sort. But I have spent the past 40+ years in vocational ministry. 27 years as pastor of the same church. And over 25 years as a seminary professor. And you?

 

[TCassidy]

That is meaningless when coming from someone like a Calvinist who also teaches that you just were not saved if you sin in a way they feel is outrageous.

Why would you make such an untrue statement? I don't know of any "Calvinist" whether self-identified as such or not, who believes that. Some, who tend to take "Lordship Salvation" to an extreme may, but even then most who believe in "Lordship Salvation" do not, but only believe that if a person's entire life is a denial of Christ it is unlikely (but ultimately unknowable) if that person is really saved.

You have a limited perspective.

Because I believe only God can see the heart you say I have a limited perspective? Are you claiming to have a better perspective than I do? Are you claiming to be able to see my heart?

So we cannot judge.

That's what I said.

 

[Iconoclast]

If we ask for His salvation sincerely the Father gave us to Jesus! No one needs your extra criteria or opinion on it.

The fact is the giving took pla c e before the world was created. 2 tim 1:9....it has nothing to do with my opinion.
You have wandered into the deep end of the pool and do not know how to swim.
Might be a good idea to lean a bit before posting.

 

[TCassidy]

No, but who does that?

I have known some who did.

Who would know?

Whoever they told. In my first church, back in 1974, there was a teen boy who attended our church with his mother. He made a profession of faith, was baptized, and was active with the teen group and youth choir. I left for another city and lost contact with him. I came back to visit about 5 years later and looked him up. He was no longer attending. I asked him why not. He said he didn't believe "all that crap." He told me the only reason he made the profession of faith and submitted to baptism was to get his mom off his back. Now that he was an adult he would do as he pleased.

God knows.

Yes, He does.

I assume most of us are sincere when we pray for forgiveness and ask for the eternal life Jesus died for and promised us.

So do I, but my assumptions do not always prove to be correct.

 

[dad1]

So you deny predestination?

God knew who would chose Him. He never made us do it.

Do you think Ephesians 1:5 (Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,) and 1:11 (In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.) are wrong?

I think they mean something other than what you suggest. He did make a way for us and knew us before time started here.

And can you please post a quote from anyone on this thread who has claimed that "God has us as some sort of predestined zombies?" Thank you.

If anyone thinks that we are pre destined rather than free choice that is zombies.

So you deny Romans 8:7 (Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.) is scripture? Or 1 Corinthians 2:14 (Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.)?

His spirit in us is what makes things understood. But let's not pretend your carnal man vanishes completely when we get saved. Paul said he still fought with that stuff.

First, I am not your boy. In fact I am well over a decade older than you. I was in high school while you were busy being born.

It seems pretentious to purposely get hung up on common phrases, like 'boy did that go well!' Etc. Petty and less than forthright.

As for the drawing board, I am not a draftsman, or artist of any sort.

There you go again, being literal to a foolish degree.

But I have spent the past 40+ years in vocational ministry.

Do they offer refunds?

27 years as pastor of the same church.

Whooopee do.

And over 25 years as a seminary professor.

Not a plus in any way.

And you?

I am a believer.

 

[dad1]

Why would you make such an untrue statement? I don't know of any "Calvinist" whether self-identified as such or not, who believes that. Some, who tend to take "Lordship Salvation" to an extreme may, but even then most who believe in "Lordship Salvation" do not, but only believe that if a person's entire life is a denial of Christ it is unlikely (but ultimately unknowable) if that person is really saved.

Don't feel free to take it to any level.

 

[dad1]

The fact is the giving took pla c e before the world was created. 2 tim 1:9....it has nothing to do with my opinion.
You have wandered into the deep end of the pool and do not know how to swim.
Might be a good idea to lean a bit before posting.

God decided to send Jesus and the plan of salvation was there before the world began, yes. He foreknew us because He is the great I AM, and not bound to time. In no way does that take away from our free will and choice. Period.

 

[dad1]

He was no longer attending. I asked him why not. He said he didn't believe "all that crap."

That shows progress! God is working on him. No church of yours needed.

 

[TCassidy]

No church of yours needed.

I don't have a church. I am a member of a congregation belonging to the Lord Jesus Christ. You should try it!

 

[TCassidy]

Don't feel free to take it to any level.

I am sorry to have to say this, but your posts don't make any sense. Do you drink?

 

[TCassidy]

God knew who would chose Him.

Yes, we all know that. What is your point?

He never made us do it.

Who said He did make us do it? Please quote the person saying that.

I think they mean something other than what you suggest.

I didn't say they mean anything. I just posted the scripture. Are you saying they don't mean what they say?

He did make a way for us and knew us before time started here.

Yes, we all know that, what is your point?

If anyone thinks that we are pre destined rather than free choice that is zombies.

So God is wrong for saying that we are predestined?

His spirit in us is what makes things understood.

Exactly! And, as His Spirit is not in a lost person, there is no way a lost person can believe, or know, or obey, all of which are the result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for making my point for me.

But let's not pretend your carnal man vanishes completely when we get saved

Nobody in this thread has said any such thing.

It seems pretentious to purposely get hung up on common phrases, like 'boy did that go well!' Etc. Petty and less than forthright.

I see. So you can "get hung up on" and use "petty and less than forthright" insults but I am not allowed to comment on them? Can you post the Baptist Board rule that says that?

 

[Internet Theologian]

Not one argument from Scripture from dad1, and not one argument against the Scriptures provided. From looking in here it is quite apparent dad1 doesn't have a solid grasp of Scripture. Titus 2:2 and 2 Timothy 2:15 are in order and need to be heeded.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning:
Sometime after 8pm Pacific, this thread will be closed.

 

[dad1]

Not one argument from Scripture from dad1, and not one argument against the Scriptures provided. From looking in here it is quite apparent dad1 doesn't have a solid grasp of Scripture. Titus 2:2 and 2 Timothy 2:15 are in order and need to be heeded.

All are based on Scripture. Your attempts to evil rate me to death are a joke. Ha.

 

[dad1]

Yes, we all know that. What is your point?


Who said He did make us do it? Please quote the person saying that.
I didn't say they mean anything. I just posted the scripture. Are you saying they don't mean what they say?

Yes, we all know that, what is your point?

So God is wrong for saying that we are predestined?

Exactly! And, as His Spirit is not in a lost person, there is no way a lost person can believe, or know, or obey, all of which are the result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Thank you for making my point for me.

Nobody in this thread has said any such thing.

I see. So you can "get hung up on" and use "petty and less than forthright" insults but I am not allowed to comment on them? Can you post the Baptist Board rule that says that?

If it is predestined rather than a free choice you are a zombie.