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Baptist Believer

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. That's magical thinking.

No, it is not. I hate magic and I destroy everything related to it. Don't even go there.

I will try to answer you courteously and not be abrasive; nonetheless you don't know what you're talking. about. You are a relatively inexperienced person who thinks that your little season of spiritual warfare makes you some sort of expert apparently. The curses were real and we broke them by the power of Jesus Christ and His shed blood. It is the shed blood that breaks the curse of sin on all sinners to begin with (hello?).... and it is that same shed blood that breaks all other curses.

I fully believe in the active work of the evil one and his minions - I have had to deal with it before for an extended period - but I don't buy the popular culture ideas of talismans, crucifixes, ghosts, etc.

I don't either; I eliminate them. Crucifixes are uneeded. Why did you even mention it since I said nothing about them? Your 'extended' period did not help you understand these matters better.

There is a sense in which material objects can be symbols of our faith (bronze serpent, the shadow of Peter, cloths associate with Paul, for instance), but they have no power apart from God.

And? Again you mention something I did not refer to nor do I ever use in eliminating evil spirits. The power of the Holy Spirit and scripture (using the name of Jesus Christ) is all we ever use or ever will use. So you are finding fault where there is no fault.

The curses are not magical things.

Wrong. Witches place curses on people daily, even hourly and many of those curses actually work. I've seen it happen and when the curses are broken by appealing to the Lord and Jesus shed blood they are eliminated. You have a lot to learn, dear friend.

They are curses from God - not the evil one or his minions. You are giving too much power to the enemies of God.

Wrong again. They are BOTH....from God and He uses the devils to fulfill the curses on evil doer's and rebels who deserve the punishment. I Kings 22:21-22.

The passage you cite does not actually support your assertion.

And by your unbelief in this matter you have just rendered Exodus 20:4-5 ineffectual in the real world. The people who worship and/or CONTACT evil spirits via Ouija boards, crystal balls, talisman's, or palm reading bring a demonic curse upon themselves and those curses will stay with them all of their lives...unless they repent and trust in Jesus. They also bring a curse upon their posterity unto the third and fourth generation. You need to do a complete Bible word study on the word 'curse' so you can get a better idea as to what actually exists and how to deal with it in the matter of spiritual warfare.

You are reading things into it. It says NOTHING about the objects being cursed.

Wrong again! And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. Joshua 6:18.

It says nothing about the objects having to be destroyed to break their power.

No. You are again in serious error. All idols, fetishes, and talismans are accursed objects and they are commanded by the Lord to be destroyed. Good grief how could you possibly miss this? Hezekiah alone destroyed so many of them. We are to do the same as Christians (Acts 19:11-19).

Destroying the objects of the evil arts is a symbol of repentance and making a break from the old life and practices.

Only after they are utterly destroyed. That is part of the repentance that the offender must do in following Jesus.

The objects themselves do not actually have power.

No, they don't, but the devils attached to them do. And those devils will remain in the lives of those who keep them until the sin is repented of.

Who gave you authority to consign the demons to the lake of fire?

The Lord Jesus Christ. Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. Luke 9:1.

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Matt. 8:29

And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. Luke 8:31.

We are to do it the way Jesus did it...by His example and no other way,.

Where do you find anyone in scripture explicitly exercising that authority?

That was an incredibly foolish question. I just answered it above.

I'm on a break at work and I don't have time to watch your video. I may look at it later. I need to warn you, I am NOT intrigued by things like this and I find it about as glamorous as cleaning the toilet or taking out the trash. I know there are Christians who think quite a bit about themselves because they think they have been used of God in deliverance ministry - and they might be right - but the person who is used of God is incredibly insignificant. That person does not even have to be a mature Christian by any means. It is like the story of the elephant who rocked a suspension bridge as he bounded across. The flea on the elephant's back, bragging to his friends about the way "they" rocked the bridge...

Anyone who brags about being used in these sorts of areas must not be taken seriously. If you really know what is going on, you know that you have no power in yourself to effect anything.

Then do me a favor and ignore me from now on. Since you are obviously the 'expert' in these matters then when the person who is being troubled as mentioned in the O.P cries out for help here on this forum I will direct him to YOU. Are you ready to step in and help that person? If you don't answer anything else then please answer this one.

You completely ignored the fact that I said I was not bragging. I was merely giving you the facts and the scriptural support for what I described.

I really don't mean to be unkind to you but you said a lot of things that are downright wrong.

So you may post others now and not waste time on me.

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I could point out all the ways you have twisted what I have said and missed what I was trying to say, but there's no point.

I am happy to help. But this person actually doesn't need my help or yours. He's just fine with Jesus. He simply needs to set aside all of the baggage our culture has added (and Christians have encouraged) involving the demonic and exercise the power of the Spirit according to the will of God.

My previous posts in this matter - before you stepped in to add your spin on things - were designed to help. I am happy to help by phone with this unnamed person, as well as visit if it is feasible and would be helpful. But this person doesn't need a "haunted house" specialist or someone who posts videos like what you have posted that severely undermine your credibility. This person needs to get a sense of who they are in Christ and deal with things as they come.

 

I twisted nothing. I laid the scritpural truth of the matter before you and you are rejecting it.

You are also a shallow thinker if you think that such people don't need the help of other Christians in such matters. You may be a little experienced (very little it seems) in spiritual warfare but there are those including preachers, that aren't even in kindergarten about demonic activity. Why do you think that Jesus came in the first place???? besides giving salvation he gave deliverance to the captives.

Now would you please aim your barbed-wire comments at others and let's put an end to this matter. I would rather see what the person with the problem has to say.

 

See what you started?

 

No I'm not. I just didn't respond to you since you didn't want to talk about it anymore.

That's a new one. Never been accused of being a shallow thinker. Of course you are misunderstanding me. We need each others help for support, but YOU and I have no resources that this still unnamed person does not already have available.

I was done with the previous post. You just insinuated that I wasn't being helpful and didn't want to help this unnamed, unknown person. I have a feeling you would advise him that he needs your "haunted house" skills, not my "simply stand on the authority of Jesus and do not be afraid" position.

 

Quote: "But this person actually doesn't need my help or yours."

So tell that person so in those very words if and when you are approached by him.

You are a double-minded person and rather than carry this on further I think it best to put you on ignore.

 

I was going to leave this alone, but the friend of Salty's that has apparently registered but not appeared publicly. I am concerned that he may be taking bad advice from our friend Calypsis privately. He is free to do that, but for his sake I want to point out some big red flags in the thinking and scriptural understanding of Calypsis, so that he knows what he is getting into.

I am not going to respond to the insults, but Calypsis made an assertion that he has laid out scriptural truth that I have rejected.

Let's look at a couple of the most egregious examples of his scriptural truth:

Calypsis apparently believes that houses can be haunted (he claims to have cleansed four of them) and that objects carry curses which must be destroyed (see post #15), citing Acts 19:11-19.

A simple review of this passage, especially the most relevant part – verses 18-19 – shows that the people who came to faith destroyed their magic books. It says nothing about curses. Instead, it is similar to what a person might do who is giving up drugs and alcohol – they get rid of it. Or perhaps a person who used to worship an idol – they destroy it.

I pointed out that the passage doesn’t support his assertions. He responded:

I don’t disagree with the idea that those who engage in occultic practices invite demonic oppression – and that can only be relieved by the grace of God. Calypsis understands “curses” to be demonic oppression, but I think we just need to simply call it demonic oppression instead of cloaking the idea with the word “curse.”

He quoted a continuation of my thought, “You are reading things into it. It says NOTHING about the objects being cursed.”

He responded:

He has moved from the idea that objects can inherently have curses (demonic oppression?) attached to them by quoting God’s command in Jericho (a very different context) for everything and everyone in the city of Jericho (except Rahab and her household) to be destroyed.

This passage says nothing about whether or not objects can have curses on them. It does speak to God marking material goods and persons for destruction – in that sense, cursing them. If we are going to apply the command of Jericho to the situation in Acts and our present day, then we would be obligated to destroy anyone opposed to God as well as all of their possessions. Of course, the Joshua passage does not have a connection to the issue at hand, so it just demonstrates that perhaps Calypsis has done a word study on curses (as he suggested that I do) without understanding the context of the passages and that there are different meanings for the word based upon context.

Holding that thought, let’s move to the next part of my initial response to which Calypsis has responded. He quoted me writing, “It says nothing about the objects having to be destroyed to break their power.”

The Acts passage refers to magical books, not idols, fetishes and talismans. Books are not worshiped, nor are they used as talismans. You referred to Hezekiah. He destroyed the bronze serpent created by Moses in the wilderness that was explicitly commanded to be created by God but had fallen into use as an idol that some people worshiped (2 Kings 18:4). So the issue is not that the objects were pagan, but that they were being used as idols.

What Calypsis has demonstrated is that we are to have no part with idols. He has not demonstrated that objects have to be destroyed to break their power.

Certainly, we should put away from ourselves all idols – if we have been worshiping idols – and live for God. But the Acts passage simply doesn’t teach what he claims it teaches.

He quotes me again when I wrote, “The objects themselves do not actually have power.”

He finally admits the point I have been making all along, that the objects do not actually have power, that it is demonic activity. Yet he thinks that demons are somehow attached to the objects.

The demons are simply not bound to objects, but persons who indulge in occult activities may use objects to access demons as part of a ritual. But frankly, the ritual is there for the person conducting it to think that they have spiritual power and to be drawn into magical thinking. The rituals have no real power over the demonic except as it suits the demonic realm in their role as deceivers.

One think I’ve noticed about our friend Calypsis is that he really wants us to destroy objects that have been associated with the occult (I’m fine with that), but has apparently based his view of “haunted houses” on the idea that objects can be associated with curses (the demons) and the practice of the occult. If one was going to be consistent, then Calypsis should be arguing for the destruction of “haunted houses” instead of “cleansing” them as he has claimed to do four times. But one might object by pointing out that houses are expensive. Quite true. But the story he keeps quoting from Acts makes a major point that the magical books that were destroyed were EXTREMELY expensive (50,000 silver pieces).

On another issue, I asked him, “Who gave you authority to consign the demons to the lake of fire?”

He responded:

Obviously, Jesus gives us the power and authority to deal with the demonic, but our friend goes on to elaborate:

Let’s look at the first quote from Matthew 8:29.

He is quoting from Matthew’s version of Jesus’ encounter with the demonized man in the region of the Gadarenes. It is an instructive passage (Matthew 8:28-34). The scripture tells us that the demons who were within the man were afraid that Jesus might torment them before ”the time.” Simply put, there is a future time of torment.

Now let’s look at Luke’s account of the same passage (Luke 8:26-39). Luke actually gives a much more detailed account that includes every relevant point Matthew made and adds detail. Our friend quoted Luke 8:31 from the KJV, when the demons beg Jesus not to banish them to the abyss (KJV reads, “deep). According to Revelation, the final destination of the demonic realm is the lake of fire, and Calypsis had testified that he has heard demons screaming as they went into “hell” on at least one occasion in 2006.

Calypsis sums up these passages by writing, “We are to do it the way Jesus did it...by His example and no other way.” But apparently he didn’t notice that Jesus DID NOT send them into the “deep”/abyss. He did not send them into “hell” or the lake of fire either. He sent them into a herd of swine instead.

The reason I asked the question I did was that I was trying to point out that Calypsis was following the standard deliverance ministry ideas instead of the scriptural teaching. He has claimed to send demons to hell when we don’t have any evidence that Jesus or anyone in the New Testament did so. One day Jesus will do that, but if He is doing it now, we have no scriptural support. We certainly have the authority to send demons away, as I usually say, "Go where Jesus sends you", but it is not our place to overreach the authority of Jesus.

Again, I'm not interested in debating Calypsis, but he has put some popular but faulty theology into this thread that needs a response. I am certain that Calypsis is as sincere as can be and that he is a nice person, but simply misled by the dizzying and troubling world of spiritual warfare. There is so much deception involved that the best choice is not to speculate about things, but stick to what the scripture actually says. Otherwise, you'll start creating your own magical view and forget that the power to deal with these things does not come from you, but from God.

 

Quick note. You are trying to put words into my mouth. You assume I have no pastoral understanding of the situation and are unwilling to guide someone through the issues and reality of spiritual warfare. I would appreciate it if you would discontinue your character assasination.

 

Years back some folks I know loved to watch ghost videos. The thing I noticed about them was that they were mostly doors closing and things falling. Never an apparition, never anything truly levitating, or

If all that is happening is doors closing and things falling, I'm suspect, but if they are hearing voices and things are really flying off the shelves, not just falling, then I would go with BB's assessment.

 

Yes. That is the common thread I have seen with all of those things. They encourage one's imagination to run wild. My home makes noises from time to time. I don't suspect "haunting." I know it is the shifting of the pier and beam foundation in this Texas soil between the rainy and dry seasons.

There's also the probability of fraud in a lot of those videos. As we know, "reality" TV isn't really reality, and much of it is explicitly scripted. A lot of the videos I have seen sound like they have had the sound manipulated and visual effects to enhance natural noises or simply add things that aren't there. Anyone with a bit of knowledge, a basic package of software, and a few hours can create those effects.

 

Regret it. I hope the person being afflicted gets some help out of this mess.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

BB is dead wrong. He was given the scriptures proving his position is in error and he rejected what he was shown. He has an arrogant, know-it-all attitude and cannot be reasoned with so I put him on ignore. But if you wish to take the word of a mostly inexperienced person with unbiblical ideas about spiritual warfare or deliverance than that is at your discretion.

 

Yes, so do I. If BB hadn't popped in with his unbiblical ideas and faulty criticisms then perhaps we would have heard from the person who is being terrorized. I still hope we will.

But look who the devil is fighting in this matter. Every time I go off line to do my other duties and come back to Baptist Board I have to log in again....I mean every time. The last time I was on Bapt. Board I was logged OFF while I was typing. This has happened. Every time I attempt to post documenation and/or photos there is a serious technical problem and some of it simply won't post even after several attempts. When I attempt to lift my photos off of photobucket the page changes constantly and it is a battle just to get one picture properly placed. I might add that this is not a new phenomenon for me.

These days I can NEVER post the truth about biblical deliverance from evil without this interference INCLUDING cheap criticisms from shallow minded brethren, most of whom don't know what they are talking about.

Best wishes.

 

There it is again....I was logged off before I could make corrections in my last post and I couldn't get back on for the last 10 to 15 minutes.. That's twice within ten minutes that I am forced off the board before finishing. I literally had to pray and ask the Lord to help me just to have access to this board again because I kept getting the 508 error message. I don't blame the devils for everything but sometimes it is rather obvious.

 

Likely a technical problem, not demons. Try using Chrome browser.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

I seriously doubt that. Like I said it happens every time I broach this subject. It also happens to others in a similar ministry both on line and on the radio.

 

Holy cow. Who wrote this?

Here's how it should have looked . . .

Years back some folks I know loved to watch ghost videos. The thing I noticed about them was that they were mostly doors closing and things falling. Never an apparition, never anything truly levitating, or obviously manipulated by an entity.

If all that is happening is doors closing and things falling, I'm suspicious, but if they are hearing voices and things are really flying off the shelves, not just falling, then I would go with BB's assessment​

 

I have been getting error messages too. That doesn't mean it is demonic. It most likely means that there is something misconfigured with BaptistBoard or its server.

Of course our expert here has declared me unbiblical, inexperienced, double minded, shallow minded, and faulty, so I must be wrong. Gotta take the expert opinion. Its demons.