Featured Justification

His human spirit - He was also fully man and it is obvious you have no clue concerning the true nature of man as you interpret his nature only on a biological level no different than animals forgetting that he is made in the "invisible" image of God who is spirit.

First, you are quoting the Greek Septuagent instead of the original Hebrew text. The Hebrew text uses the plural ("lives")in Genesis 2:7 not the singular. Man is not an animal, he is more than mere biological life. As with animals, his biological life is in the blood and therefore to shed his blood in the Biblical sense means to take away his biological life - to die. However, the "soul" of man represents a plurality of lives that include more than mere biological life.

The term "soul" also includes pyschological life and its manifestations. This is how Jesus defines works. The pychological life of man includes the inward activities of man's intellect and affections which are then made manifest externally by the will of man in words and actions. So there is the inward pyschological life and its outward expressions and that is the substance of what the Bible calls either good or bad works which have their source with the heart.

The term "soul" also gives expression to the spiritual life of man. Man is a triune being composed of spirit, soul and body, and in the fall, the spirit of man was separated from God and that separation was expressed through the pyschological life (soul) of man. Adam was created "upright" because Adam was created in spiritual union with God. God is life, light and holiness and when that is the source of man's spiritual life, light and holiness when he was created. The very instant his pyschological life (soul) sinned, man was spiritually separated from God who is life, light and holiness and thus in that very instant he spiritually died (separated from God), and that spiritual death was expressed in his pyschological life (soul) cast into spiritual darkness and spiritually depravity, which in turn originated the progressive principle of corruption in his biological life form thus eventually resulting in separation of his material from his immaterial life forms - physical death 930 years later.

Thus the moral "image" God was lost in the fall and it was lost in the area of man's spirit and that is why it is the "spirit" of man that must be born of the Spirit (jn. 3:6). By new birth the spirit of man is brought back into spiritual union with God, and that spiritual life is made manifest in the pyschological life of man by inclining the will of man toward righteousness. As God works in the spirit of man through the pyschological life of man (mind, affections) to enlighten, empower, and impart righeousness into the external life of man (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10).

Adam was created a "living soul" whose physical body was sustained by biological life and when biological life ceased, the body returned to dust. Adam was created a "living soul" because the pychological life of Adam was the control center within that biological sustained body. Adam was controlled by his soul - self control.

The body of the Second Adam was free from the corruptive indwelling principle of sin.He said that no man could take his life. For him to suffer biological death, he would have to willing depart from his body. The proof that his body did not possess the indwelling corruptive principle of sin is that while it was in the grave it saw NO CORRUPTION. When His body was raised from the grave in its incorruptible state, it was made alive by the Spirit to suffer biological death no more. Our bodies corrupt in the grave as they turn back into dust, but when our bodies are quickened by the Spirit they will be raised like unto Christ's body - incorrptible and no longer subject to biological death nor under self-control (soul guided) but the control center in the resurrected glorified man will be in the spirit of man where union with God occurs, and thus directly under the control of the inward new man empowered by the Spirit of God. Here and now, we are to "walk in the Spirit" but many times fail. In the new resurrected body there will be not only no indwelling sin and therefore no indwelling principle of biological corruption, but the control center in man will no longer be soul centered but spirit centered as we will always "walk IN THE SPIRIT."

 

We are not discussing deity, but justification, and the dying man on the cross in relationship to justification. We are discussing how the MAN Jesus could say "My God, My God why hath thou forsaken me." We are discussing the MAN Jesus willingly giving over his HUMAN spirit into the hands of the Father.

When you confuse the deity with the humanity of Christ with regard to the works of Christ, then, only confusion and false doctrine will be the result. The mutable MAN who grew in wisdom and knowledge could be separated from God just as his HUMAN body could suffer death which NEITHER are true of His deity. Deity is incapable of death but HUMANITY is capable of death but biologically and spiritually.

Are you going to argue that Deity can suffer biological death???? Of course not! That must refer to his HUMANITY! Then why not concerning the other aspect of death - spiritual separation. You rightly conclude that is impossible for DEITY but is it impossible for his HUMANITY as he does have a human "spirit" as much as he has a human "body."

 

Sorry brother but your own words contradict what you are saying. God has but "one nature" but God cannot grow in wisdom and knowledge and if your theory of "one nature" is true than God is not immutable or omniscient and thus you have just repudiated the God revealed in Scripture. If there is but "one nature" as you seem to think than the humanity of Jesus is divine and eternal and immutable and could not possibly suffer death of any kind as the "one nature" of God is eternal. Neither could his humanity be born if it is "one" nature with God - it would have to be eternal as God Himself from everlasting to everlasting. I could care less how many theologians you may quote or reference - they are wrong and their error is obvious to anyone who simply considers the evidence.

Can God die? Has God more than "one nature"? I will agree that both natures are fused together in one person but they are not one and the same nature and they are not MANIFESTLY one and the same either. The MAN has a body but GOD does not as God TOOK UPON HIMSELF that body and thus it previously was not ONE with the NATURE of God. Neither was it ONE nature during his life as God's one nature is immutable but the human nature of Christ is mutable. Neither is it "one" nature in heaven, but that physical body is limited to space, location whereas the deity of Christ was in heaven while the body of Christ was on earth when speaking to Nicodemus (Jn. 1:13).

In the Trinity there is but one nature without confusion of Persons, and in the incarnation there is two natures in one person without confusion of natures.

 

Another thing, spiritual union with Christ cannot be confused with justification. That very confusion ultimately results in "another gospel." Spiritual union is obtained by regeneration and manifested in progressive sanctification. Confusing progressive sanctification with justification is the crux of "another gospel."

 

Now you are confusing circumstances with attributes of nature. One error will only lead to another error. Circumcstances have nothing to do with the physical body of Christ being on earth in a geographical limited location and his deity being omnipresent in heaven and earth (Jn. 1:13). Circumstances have nothing to do with mutable knowledge and wisdom whereas the "one nature" of God is immutable. Circumstances have nothing to do with biological or spiritual death which declares mutability of human nature when the "one nature" of God is incapable of death regardless of circumstances. Circumstances do not make God mutable by nature. You are simply wrong! Both natures are fused in one Person but without confusion of natures. You theory confuses the natures and is wrong. You have no scriptures. What you have are interpretations that contradict clear explicit scriptures.

Your reasoning is similar to JW's and their confusion of Persons in the Trinity. They argue exactly as you are doing. JW's refuse to acknowledge the distinction of the humanity of Jesus and its attributes from the deity of Christ and its attributes.

 

You are ignoring the evidence I presented and attacking my person. The evidence, I presented is irrefutable and that is most likely why you are ignoring it and trying to make this a personal issue. I never accused you of being a JW - read more carefully. What I said was the manner of your argument is similar to theirs. If you want to say the manner of my argument is similar to gnostics then feel free as I don't take that as a personal attack upon me. I am more objective than that. I would consider the reasoning behind that comparison if it were valid or not. You won't even consider the reasoning behind the comparison with regard NOT TO YOUR PERSON but to your line of reasoning.

I presented Biblical evidence that your reasoning between circumcstances and attributes is not valid.Your position is self-contradicting and the Biblical evidence I presented proves that.

Did you understand my statement when I said that the Trinity is ONE God without confusion of persons, while in the ONE PERSON of Christ there are two natures without confusion of natures?
Both natures exist in one man without confusion of natures and the Biblical evidence is irrefutable. If you claim that there is but "ONE NATURE" in Christ then you are forced to deify humanity and humanize deity.

 

The Nature of God is ONE NATURE and that nature is IMMUTABLE - Mal. 3:6 and ETERNAL without begining or end. The humanity of Christ is MUTABLE and has a BEGINNING and therefore cannot be the ONE NATURE of God. However, it is God who is ONE IN NATURE that "TOOK UPON" himself human nature. The very words "TOOK UPON" proves the human nature is not ONE with the divine nature but is ADDITIONAL to it. Yet both natures are fused into ONE PERSON - Jesus Christ who is 100% God and yet 100% man.

His life proves this to be true as the only nature that can grow physically, mentally, spiritual is not the ONE NATURE OF GOD but the human nature. The only nature that can die physically and spiritually is the HUMAN nature because God is immutable, omnicient, eternal.

Your idea that Jesus has ONE INSEPARABLE UNIFIED NATURE without any distinction between human and divine nature is simply not true, it is also irrational and does not measure up to a whole bible full of explicit teachings concerning the attributes of both natures.

On the cross it is the HUMAN nature that suffered PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL death because the Divine nature was still IN HEAVEN and ON EARTH unaffected by death because the divine nature is immutable and to be affected by death demands MUTABILITY. Because both natures are found IN ONE PERSON and therefore what is ascribed to the Person whether in his divine or human nature is ascribed to that one person but without confusion of natures in that one person. Therefore God shed his own blood in reference to the human nature that God TOOK UPON himself for that very purpose as deity cannot die.

 

You are confusing communicable with incommunicable attributes. The incommunicable attributes are what makes God to be God and different from created beings. Immutability, eternity, self-existence are all incommunicable attributes which make God to be God, without which He would not be God.

These incommunicable attributes are not mutated by circumcstances. These incommunicable atttributes cannot be communicated to human nature, and that is why God TOOK UPON himself human nature as an ADDITIVE nature not to be confused with the incommunicable attributes that make God to be God.

Sovereignty relates to CREATED things! None of the Persons of the Godhead are created things. Their mutual submission one to another is a communicable attribute not an incommunicable attribute. Circumstances does not change or alter incommunicable attributes. Created things (human nature) can never be uncreated, thus immutable or eternal.

Just as three distinguishable Persons CO-EXIST in ONE GOD without confusion of persons, so two distinguishable natures CO-EXIST in ONE PERSON without confusion of natures.

 

The Biblicist

What was in the blood of Adam that made the flesh of him, living soul and how and when did it get in the blood of Adam? If that is removed from Adam what does Adam become? What did Jesus commend from his blood that allowed his sinless blood to be an atonement for our soul?

because he hath poured out his soul unto death: From Isa 53:12
to give his life a ransom for many. From Mark 10:45

Did that take place by the breath of lives being commended from his blood? Thus the blood, wherein had been his life/soul, was given as an atonement? Christ died for our sins. The death assigned to Adam in Genesis 2:17?

 

Philip. 2:7

If the human Jesus could repeatedly tell others that he was obedient to the Father and in fellowship with the Father, then, why could he not in his humanity experience break of fellowship with the Father due to imputed sin? When we sin we experience break of fellowship with the Father without losing spiritual union with God don't we? Why could not Jesus as a man suffer disfellowship with his Father without ceasing to be God. Can the human Jesus experience spiritual growth without ceasing to be God, and therefore suffer break in fellowship in his human spirit without ceasing to be God??

 

Again your are confusing biological life with its dependency upon blood providing nutriments to all areas of the body with pyschological and spiritual lives that is wholly unrelated to physical blood. Paul explicitly says that the indwelling principle of sin is in "the body" not the blood.

 

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Romans 4:25

Were our sins washed away in his blood life when he was quickened by the Spirit?

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Lev 23:11
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17

 

It seems that you are unable/unwilling to distinguish between biological life and psychological life. You want to confuse them in every aspect of your posts. As long as you do that I can't help you. The word "soul" includes more than mere biological life. It goes beyond animal existence. It includes animal life existence with all the physical elements of blood, body and consciousness as with animals, but man's soul is more inclusive than the PHYSICAL REALM but is made in the image of God who is SPIRIT and there is a spiritual likeness of God in man. His "soul" has plurality of lives and only one aspect is biological life. He has a pyschological life and spiritual life. Hence, the "life" of man is more comprehensive than mere animal or biological life.

When Christ gave his "life" on the cross, it was not merely his biological life that is being offered up AS ANY ANIMAL COULD SATISFY that requirement. But the body he offered up had to be PSYCHOLOGICALLY pure from sin (mind, affections) as revealed in his words and actions. His spirit had to be in union with God's spirit. It is all three aspects that made his "life" a suitable atonement INSTEAD OF ANIMAL sacrifices.

Seemingly you are incapable of getting beyond the singular life - biological. You want to reduce man to no more than an animal existence rather created in the image of God?