A return to it's theological foundation

[TCassidy]

So people who are heterodox in, say, their Christology will still be saved?

We can't see the hearts of people, but we can see the outer things of their lives. If a person openly denies the Deity of Christ, or the finished work of Christ, isn't it possible to form an opinion regarding that person's standing in Christ?

 

[tyndale1946]

A few decades ago while doing a study of Universalism I became very interested in our Primitive Baptist (PB) brethren and a small Appalachian group of PB's called "no-hellers" because as far as I know they are the only Trinitarian Universalists (as opposed to Unitarian) in existence today.

It's a misnomer because they do believe in hell, howbeit that its a temporary place kind of like the Roman Purgatorio.

Unlike purgatory however its a place of perfecting (not punishing) where Jesus Christ is perfectly revealed to the children of God (all of humanity).

Like Tom, I sincerely would like to agree with them but alas there is the Bible to contend with.

HankD

Hank yes I know being raised in PB Church there are different faction among our people... There were No Hellers, Two Seeders, Absoluters and those that believe in the Hollow Log Doctrine... Just to name a few... But I can assure you the brethren I've know have believed in Hell as the final place of torment for those not saved by the blood of Jesus Christ... I know the Absolute brethren are still around some either now or have been on the board... Most of those other mentioned to my knowledge have died out... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

If a person openly denies the Deity of Christ, or the finished work of Christ

Did this 'nice lady' do either of those? No, she extrapolated from her reasoning, basically got fired for it, and religionist bigots the likes of Iconoclast condemns her to hell. Never mind if she is still loving mercy, doing justly, and walking humbly before her God, she goes to hell for her error of 'unorthodoxy'.

SNIP

[add]

and how much more Pharisaical/Puritanical could you be?

 

[kyredneck]

Hank yes I know being raised in PB Church there are different faction among our people... There were No Hellers, Two Seeders, Absoluters and those that believe in the Hollow Log Doctrine... Just to name a few... But I can assure you the brethren I've know have believed in Hell as the final place of torment for those not saved by the blood of Jesus Christ... I know the Absolute brethren are still around some either now or have been on the board... Most of those other mentioned to my knowledge have died out... Brother Glen

Yea, most don't know the variance there is among the PBs. And it never ceases to amaze me the degree of tolerance or intolerance to certain doctrines there is. Membership in 'Secret Societies' i.e. Masons, has been a huge divider while 'no heller' preachers are welcome as long as they don't preach it. Eschatology same way, almils, premils, panmils, preterists, and even a few dispies (so I hear) thrown in the mix, they're very tolerant in this area.

 

[Iconoclast]

I hold to the finished work of Christ:

1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem; and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned, that she hath received of Jehovah`s hand double for all her sins. Isa 40

36 And as they spake these things, he himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they beheld a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and wherefore do questionings arise in your heart? Lu 24

7 To all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Ro 1

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 1

3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, Gal 1

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph 1

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Phil 1

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ that are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. Col 1

1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timothy, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace. ! Thess 1

2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 1

2 unto Timothy, my true child in faith: Grace, mercy, peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. 1 Tim 1

2 to Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. 2 Tim 1

4 to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour. Titus 1

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Philemon 1

2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 2 Pet 1

Hello kyredneck
I like and believe all these verses as you do.
I fully believe in a perfect accomplished redemption for the election as you do.
That being said the warnings in scripture are given in real time....false professors need to take heed....note here kyred.....I did not write them but I know they are there and they are for a reason.

 

[kyredneck]

....false professors need to take heed

You represent one HUMONGOUS contradiction to me. How does a false professor take heed? If their names are not written before the foundation of the world why do you persist with this 'false professors take heed'?

I assume you and P4T imagine there are a lot of 'false professors' on this board because you never tire of warning us of hell fire damnation if we don't change our ways when there's no way we could change our ways if our names weren't written in heaven before the foundation of the world.

Does it give you some sense of authority to threaten God's saints with eternal consequences?

 

[Jerome]

P4T

Preacher4truth? Wasn't he banned from posting here a year ago?

 

[kyredneck]

Preacher4truth? Wasn't he banned from posting here a year ago?

He's back with another moniker. Matured a bit I think.

[add]

take note of all the 'likes', 'agrees', 'winners', you'll figger out who he is.

 

[Iconoclast]

You represent one HUMONGOUS contradiction to me. How does a false professor take heed? If their names are not written before the foundation of the world why do you persist with this 'false professors take heed'?

I assume you and P4T imagine there are a lot of 'false professors' on this board because you never tire of warning us of hell fire damnation if we don't change our ways when there's no way we could change our ways if our names weren't written in heaven before the foundation of the world.

Does it give you some sense of authority to threaten God's saints with eternal consequences?

There are many accounts in church history of people who were already serving as missionaries who claimed to have been saved after being out in the field.
The warnings Paul gives in 2 Cor 13.....are real warnings.
Kyred......it is good to know that everyone God has ordained to eternal life will indeed be saved......but that perseverance in faith and holiness takes diligence on our part using every means of grace available to us...
Give diligence to make YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE.....means just what it says.
If you have a secret knowledge of all the Father gave to the Son before the world was.....let us know who is on the list....so we can take our foot off the gas pedal and just coast into heaven without a care, no mortification of sin, no pursuing holiness without which no.man shall see the Lord. Unless you have such knowledge I will take heed how I hear, and read any and all warnings and will warn others also.

 

[kyredneck]

just coast into heaven without a care,

Wow. Something about FREE GIFT of eternal life you don't comprehend?

 

[kyredneck]

just coast into heaven without a care

This reminds me of:

21 Peter therefore seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Jn 21

Pay attention to your own path and stop fretting about what others are doing. You've absolutely zilch to do with their eternal destiny.

 

[Iconoclast]

This reminds me of:

21 Peter therefore seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me. Jn 21

Pay attention to your own path and stop fretting about what others are doing. You've absolutely zilch to do with their eternal destiny.

People do not affect people toward their eternal destiny???

Sorry Kyred....this is flat out wrong....here is why;
1cor7;
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

According to you they should not bother to obey this....as in your world God does not use means;

Jude never read your ideas also;
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh......
Ezekiel 33King James Version (KJV)
33 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

[Iconoclast]

Wow. Something about FREE GIFT of eternal life you don't comprehend?

I am okay on the free gift...
I am also okay with God ordaining good works that we are to walk in.
I am okay with worldwide evangelism.... humanly speaking
I am okay with doing all I can do to remove all obstacles from an unsaved person coming to Jesus.

I am okay with understanding all 5 points do not lead to fatalism, but to evangelism.

 

[Jerome]

Preacher4truth? Wasn't he banned from posting here a year ago?

He's back with another moniker.

Ugh. What's the point of banning someone then?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you think she is a saved person Larry? Are we to know them by their fruit....if so, what does it sa y about her?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ugh. What's the point of banning someone then?

LaughLaughLaugh not a thing Jerome! Of course, you can attempt to be gracious...esp since we seem to be throwing Grace around!Roflmao

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am okay on the free gift...
I am also okay with God ordaining good works that we are to walk in.
I am okay with worldwide evangelism.... humanly speaking
I am okay with doing all I can do to remove all obstacles from an unsaved person coming to Jesus.

I am okay with understanding all 5 points do not lead to fatalism, but to evangelism.

OK already...Sneaky

 

[Internet Theologian]

You represent one HUMONGOUS contradiction to me. How does a false professor take heed? If their names are not written before the foundation of the world why do you persist with this 'false professors take heed'?

Was this not always the warning, even in OT times, that is, all who profess need to take heed? None of us know who the elect are, the false professor won't take heed, but neither you nor I know who the false are, nor the elect.

Then we have this:

But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

Then to top that off, even some who may be a false professor as you name them may take heed and be counted among the elect. There are many today who claim to be false converts who came to be truly converted.

 

[JonC]

Was this not always the warning, even in OT times, that is, all who profess need to take heed? None of us know who the elect are, the false professor won't take heed, but neither you nor I know who the false are, nor the elect.

Then we have this:

But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

Then to top that off, even some who may be a false professor as you name them may take heed and be counted among the elect. There are many today who claim to be false converts who came to be truly converted.

I’m reading (re-reading for about the 100th time) John Owen. One of his comments from “The Mortification of Sin” fits well here. Owen states that the mortification of sin “from a self-strength, carried on by ways of self-invention, unto the end of a self-righteousness, is the soul and substance of all false religion in the world." Yet he insists that the mortification “of indwelling sin remaining in our mortal bodies, that it may not have life and power to bring forth the works or deeds of the flesh is the constant duty of believers”. And this is a duty with a promise – that you shall live.

 

[Jeremy Seth]

Thanks for sharing the video, I'm new to learning the history of this conservative resurgence in the SBC I've always heard referenced so often. Dr. Mohler is a very impressive man I admire greatly.