Featured Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment vs Sola Scriptura

In this generation "breaking the law" has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath.
Keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with the moral law of God, that law which is mentioned in Romans 2:14,15. No tribe in Africa or South America would feel guilt about breaking the Sabbath, but they would feel guilt when they break God's moral law, the rest of the Ten Commandments (Thou shalt not kill for example).

The verse you continue to use out of context:
Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - remains just as it was in Ps 95.
This verse refers to Christ.
If you have not entered into "His rest," you do not have salvation. "The rest" is Christ himself and has nothing to do with any day of the week.

 

This is a definition of sin. Sin is a breaking of the law, not just the Ten Commandments, but all of God's "laws." If you speed, you have broken the law, for God has ordained government (Romans 13:1-4). Thus it includes the laws of the land as well. Breaking the law is sin. It is a definition.

That is not what the verse says at all, and the context of the passage is justification.
CONTEXT:
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Now what does verse 31 really say?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
--Paul or all the saints at Rome do not justify anyone. Only God can justify. This is the topic here. To think otherwise is foolishness. The "we" is a conversational "we," and taken for granted that the subject Paul is talking about justification. We can understand this; not we accomplish this.
The saints did not accomplish salvation on the cross! Really Bob, I thought you knew better than that!! Talk about proof texting and taking scripture out of context.

First we don't live in that period of time called the Great Tribulation so the verse is completely irrelevant. It is another verse taken out of context. This is typically consistent with you.
Even so, consider the logic of the verse.
The saints keep the commandments because they are saints.
I keep the laws of the land because I am a citizen. Keeping the laws of the land did not make me a citizen. I was born in this country to be a citizen. In the same way unless a person is born into God's family he has no reason to keep God's laws. Obedience is a result of the new birth, not a prerequisite.

The same thing. They keep God's commands because they are saints. The keeping of God's commands don't make them saints. They need the new birth for that. You must be born again.

A verse taken out of context again.
However, The saint keeps the commands of God because he is a saint. If he wasn't a saint he wouldn't keep the commands of God. Keeping them doesn't make him a saint. He must be born again. How many of the 613 OT laws do you keep Bob?

The saints obey God because they are born again, that is because they are saints. Keeping them doesn't make them a saint. It is not a requirement to be a Christian. You must be born again.

God's law is written on the heart of every man (Rom.2:14,15).

The Sabbath was given to Israel and only Israel (Ex.31). But you ignore scripture. The Sabbath was never given to the Gentile Believer in the first place.

This speaks of a new heaven and a new earth--a time and a place that you know nothing of. You speak of that you know nothing of.

The Sabbath here is Christ, and only Christ. It has nothing to do with a "day."

I submit the royal law and the law of liberty. As "liberty" implies they have given me freedom.
The law that you are subject to is the law of bondage. You need to reread my previous post.

As I have previously said: My authority is the Word of God (something you don't get), not the authority of "Bob's scholars."

See above.

As explained already, the verse is speaking of a time when there is a new heaven and a new earth which you have zilch knowledge about. So why pretend?

Why not quote your verse in context:
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And that proves why the Sabbath is not part of the moral law of God.

And only Jesus could keep the law perfectly. He could and did for the purpose of making an atonement for our sin, which he did completely, once and forever.

 

The Law ---as in the TC--- is in obedience to <<Christ Himself>>.

Arguing with SDA is to make of one's heart a murderer's pit ---om van mens se hart 'n moordkuil te maak.

SDA have nothing with me or to me. Like Jesus said of Himself about the devil.

Paul said, Don't let a root of bitterness grow in one's heart. He also said, One is under the Law ---of fact, the law of sin--- for as long as one may live. Christ will in the end redeem me of that root and full grown tree of bitterness-- in the last day, and of the memory of SDA, THE MOST PROUD, UNREPENTANT AND HATEFUL PEOPLE ON EARTH.

 

Without the Holy Spirit convincing the heart of JESUS CHRIST there will come NO <<knowledge of what sin is>> whatsoever!

He who can only see sin through knowledge and application of the (TC) Law must needs be bereft of Jesus Christ as well as of the Holy Spirit as well as of God the Father. "No one comes to the Father except through Christ"; and "no one comes to Jesus lest the Father draws him." And “The Holy Spirit convinces of sin.” Because "THE LAW HAS RETIRED" until awakened from the dead in the last day of judgment OF THE LOST.

 

I looked up what SDA do on Sabbath. Sounds like me everyday.

They don't keep Sabbath at all. There is nothing special going on.

https://www.adventist.org/en/inform...ts/documents/article/go/-/sabbath-observance/


Reminds me of folks who tell you that everything Jesus says is important and the importance of following his instruction. But they never tell you anything he actually said or any instructions at all.

Its like some dumb chain letter. the purpose of that day is to explain the importance of that day.


How do you keep a Sabbath is question I would like repeatedly drilled.

There is nothing there, The SDA box is empty.

 

Ain't that the truth!
Playing games on the Sabbath, that is playing the game that you are keeping the Sabbath is simple hypocrisy. It is a game. I remember my kids coming home and playing "church." It wasn't real. They would imitate the preacher, and other aspects of the services. But true worship is not a game. It is not imitation. It is not saying one is keeping the Sabbath when they are not.

 

Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" - remains just as it was in Ps 95.

No! <<the Sabbath here>> is not Christ, but "BECAUSE Christ gave them (the People of God), Rest"---HIMSELF "THE REST OF GOD" there therefore remains obligatory for the People of God (of all time) Sabbath-Day's-rest."
THAT is what is written in truth.

"Jesus", who is, "The Rest-of-God", gave God's People HIMSELF, the 'Katapausis tou Theou' and "therefore" [ara] 'Sabbatismos' ---not 'Katapausis'---"remains to be" [apoleipetai].

Jesus GAVE them Rest, that is, gave them their FINISHED ONCE FOR ALL SALVATION-REST. But the 'katapausis' "REMAINS" and "remains FOR THE PEOPLE, TO DO".

But DHK diminishes Jesus' perfect and final, Divine Rest OF GOD---and reduces it to man's obligation and impure and imperfect keeping the Sabbath--- WHICH THE PEOPLE OF GOD HAS AS YET NOT achieved and NEVER will achieve.

What is worse, DHK's rational belies Jesus' Rest He had given the saved and makes it some flawed condition for salvation. Yes, that is what happens when you say <<the Sabbath here is Christ and Christ only.>>

 

Yes, it is true! It is true of the SDA and just about all Sabbatharians.


Now tell them of the one thing that will --no, must-- make all the difference, which is, that,


"If JESUS” having RESURRECTED from the dead ON THE SABBATH “gave the People of God Rest”,

and,

"If JESUS” having RESURRECTED from the dead ON THE SABBATH “entered into his own Rest as God in His Own”,

that

“THEREFORE — JESUS having RESURRECTED from the dead ON THE SABBATH — “a Sabbath-Day’s-Worship-Rest REMAINS for them to be observed" …


tell them THAT, and they will laugh at you just like they laugh at me who have been telling them just that for halve a century.


Tell them THAT, and they, just like you, will GO TO HELL rather than admit its truth.

 

sabbath day rest is now any day of the week unto us in Christ, as per hebrews, and the Commandment was given to national Isreal under Mosaic law, but we are now under grace, not law!

 

So is timing, as THAT will happen with national isreal at His second coming!

Right now, Church not under the Mosaic law, are we?

 

Therefore … I looked up what SDA do on Sabbath. Sounds like Sunday keepers every Sunday— living lies.


They don't keep Sabbath at all, the lot. There is nothing special going on—Christ in his Resurrection is not there. The Sundayers lie it was on Sunday; the Saturdayers lie it was on Sunday


Reminds me of folks who tell you that everything Jesus says is important and the importance of following his instruction.

But they never tell you anything He “according to the Scriptures” SAID, about that, and how, He would rise from the dead on the Sabbath;

And they never tell you anything He “according to the Scriptures” DID, as an <instruction>, yes, but infinitely more, as the ESSENCE and SUBSTANCE of <<keeping Sabbath>>.

They—NOBODY—tells you that Jesus “according to the Scriptures” DID rise from the dead in keeping with his actual keeping of the Sabbath, ON THE SABBATH.


So yes, again, <<the purpose of that day is to explain the importance of that day>>, and it’s importance is nothing than Jesus Christ whom GOD by “the exceeding greatness of his power according to the operation of his mighty strength wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead” AND RESTED—“RESTED, ON THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH-REST-DAY-OF-THE-LORD-GOD”.


<<How do you keep a Sabbath?>> is no <question> at all with God.

How did GOD keep the Sabbath Day, is no <question> either with God— He, kept it, “having ENTERED INTO HIS OWN REST AS GOD IN HIS OWN” upon it through Christ.


God in Christ and Christ in God kept the Sabbath through having RAISED FROM THE DEAD, “ON THE SABBATH”.


I would like this, repeatedly drilled. There is nothing there in the SDA box. It is empty; it’s true. There’s even less in the Sundayers’ box; it’s filled with horrific nightmarish Sundayers’ lies, deceit and hypocrisy.

 

The Historicity of the Change of the Sabbath and its Commandment is not found in anything remotely <<vs Sola Scriptura>>; it is found in the complete historical agreement “according to the Scriptures” between the Sabbath and its Commandment and THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD ON THE DAY OF THE SABBATH OF THE LORD GOD.

 

What does it really say Gerhard? You are ignoring the context. Greek means nothing without context. Here it is:
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Those under the law, that is, the Israelites had to keep the Sabbath DAY. Some did not. They remained in unbelief.

Here is the turning point:
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
--But they were under the law. Jesus had not come. Jesus had not given them rest.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

"His Rest" is Christ Himself. Christ is the only one that can give rest. He said "Abide in me and I will abide in you."
He also said:
"Come unto me and I will give you REST."
Only Christ can give you rest. For Christ himself is our rest. He makes that perfectly clear here. He is our Sabbath (rest).

 

You are not consistent in your logic.
You want to limit evidence to the NT for the first day of the week for believers to worship (our position), but at the same time, you go to the OT to say that the Sabbath is for NT worship. You are not consistent.
If it is the NT that teaches the first day of the week is for worship, then it will also be the NT that would teach the 7th day is the day we should worship. Be consistent. This is a NT teaching for believers who are in the Church Age living under grace and not under the law.

Then do as Paul did. Be a follower of Paul in all things. Be consistent. This is your problem. You are not consistent.
Paul did not worship in a NT way on the Sabbath day, according to Acts 18.
He went into the Synagogue and worshiped with the Jews. He was a Rabbi and used his status as a Rabbi to his advantage. Unless you do as Paul did, and start entering into the synagogues your argument is worthless.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
--How many synagogues have you reasoned in?

There are times where the expression "first day of the week" is used and is used in such a way to indicate that it was their practice.
Here is one:
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
--Paul would come to them on the first day of the week, the day that they assembled together as a church and brought their offerings. From there he would take their offerings or collect them so that he could go back to Jerusalem and distribute them among the poor saints there. It was a regular practice to meet on the first day of the week. That is when they brought "what God had prospered them." We do the same today.

And there isn't such a text in the NT either. You are not consistent with scripture. Verse 22 speaks of a new heaven and a new earth, therefore you are speaking out of ignorance--that which you have no knowledge of.

You are absolutely wrong here!
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).
--Christ is Lord of ALL--Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc. He is not just Lord of Saturday, he is Lord of everyday, and everyday is holy unto the Lord.

You are misquoting and do not understand the verse. The passage makes a contrast.
First, this chapter is more about faith and belief then it is about the Sabbath. The Sabbath cannot bring salvation. Only faith in Christ can do that.

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
--Faith in the gospel brings salvation; brings rest, if one believes in Christ.

Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
--Salvation (God's rest) is denied to those who do not have faith. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. Only in that way can one entered into God's rest, a rest which is provided without works, BTW.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
--The rest is salvation by faith and not of works. There is no rest without salvation by faith.
This entire passage is about faith or belief as contrasted to those that don't believe.

You are not quoting from the NT!! You are inconsistent.

No one here bends the scripture (your own unique terminology.)
NOTE: There is no command anywhere for a Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath and you in all your years here have never been able to point to one.

It is the SDA that keeps unscriptural traditions, even hypocritical ones saying they keep the Sabbath when in truth they don't.

It should be of great concern to you that you do not/cannot keep the Sabbath and thus play the part of a hypocrite in claiming that you do. why would you do that? Aren't you concerned?
The Sabbath was a command given to a specific people (Israel--Ex.31), living in a specific area of the world.

Perhaps you heard of the recent rescue of the two research scientists that were recently rescued from a research center in the Antarctic. They were rescued by pilots from here in Alberta who have experience flying in inclement weather or extreme temperatures. In North America this is the middle of summer. But in the Antarctic, the only light, if there be any, comes from the moon. The sun does not rise nor does it set. It is complete darkness day and night now for a number of weeks, as it will be complete daylight at Christmas time.
The nation of Israel did not live in the Antarctic nor near the Arctic. No one can keep the Sabbath in areas where the sun does not set or rise. It was a command given to the nation of Israel in a geographical area where it could be kept. You can't keep it. I have already demonstrated that; but you don't care.

 

<<Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.>>


Heb 4:8 “For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he—GOD, not again speak of another day…” than the “TODAY” of his—God’s, Salvation!


Hebrews 4:8 primarily speaks about the Day-of-the-Lord Jesus Christ and of his Salvation which is a spiritual day to which and of which “the day The Seventh Day God from all his works rested on” ONLY COULD WITNESS. Hebrews 4:8 speaks of the Day-of-the-Lord Jesus Christ and of his Salvation which is: “JESUS”, who “gave the People of God Rest”—Rest which is “HIS OWN ENTERING INTO HIS REST AS GOD”, in other words, Jesus’ RESURRECTION from the dead!

The Rest Jesus gave was God’s Rest IN HIM, God’s Rest reached in Jesus’ RESURRECTION from the dead.


Unless God has said anything more about the whole matter, it would not matter. But now actually God did say more about it. And not only here in Hebrews 4; but throughout the Bible … specifically at sundry CLIMACTIC MOMENTS IN THE HISTORY OF HIS SALVATION. Not once, but often. Not in passing, but to the point. Here, “God spake”, in the “exceeding greatness of His Power, WORKED to his Mighty Strength IN CHRIST TO THE POINT WHERE HE RESTED HIM HIS HEAVENLY MAJESTY AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD AND EXALTED HIM FAR ABOVE EVERY NAME THAT IS NAMED.” “God THUS concerning The Seventh Day SPAKE.” God never otherwise “concerning the day, The Seventh Day God all his works finished on, SPAKE!”


DHK your God is my God and my God is your God. His morning’s and evening’s talk is always the same.

 

<<Those under the law, that is, the Israelites had to keep the Sabbath DAY. Some did not. They remained in unbelief.>>


May I stress, the Israelites had to keep the Sabbath DAY. No one did. They ALL remained in unbelief even while they claimed that they kept the Sabbath. If any truly believed – that is, saw that the Sabbath pointed to CHRIST, they would have entered “the Rest of God”, that is, they would have believed in CHRIST, and, would have kept the Sabbath to their very best. That, is the <<contextual>> relation in Hebrews 4 between “the Rest of God”, CHRIST, and “the People of God”, whether “in times past” – Israel – or, “in these last days” – Christians.

Faith in Christ and man’s “Sabbath-day-keeping” – ‘sabbatismos’ are inseparably connected. The only difference nowadays, is, that <<Those under the law>>, that is, every confessing child of Abraham the father of all believers, will, unless God first knew him, NOT keep the Sabbath Day because “ALL” <<remained in unbelief.>>


Like Hebrews 4 says it, “IF JESUS GAVE THEM REST”, is what makes all the difference. Because “If Jesus gave the People of God Rest”, they are no longer <<under the Law>>. “IF THEN BECAUSE HE - JESUS, entered into HIS own Rest as God in his own, it THEREFORE remains for them desirable to … ‘sabbatismos’ or “Sabbaths’ Feast OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE”. (Colossians 2:16).